Field Crops Webinar Series - Corn Hybrid and Soy Variety Selection

March 26, 2018

MSU Extension Field Crop Webinar Series "Corn Hybrid and Soy Variety Selection"

Presenter: Dr. Manni Singh

Video Transcript

Good evening everyone who. Threw the. Participants to me for on the web an hour for the season so then I want to introduce a document saying here is the problem system specialist Michigan State is going to talk to us today about corn and soybean selection All right thanks thanks for the introduction Eric so again has a mention my name is many think on the topping systems agronomist here at M.S. you are relatively new to my position been here for about year and couple of months Sol again how working to develop my program and today I'll be talking about. Going there and being for the action and specifically focusing on the the on hybrid and being variety selection and some management implications that go along with that. So a quick or were you started basically looking at some corn and seven year trans and then move into on looking at hybrid selection not in tongues of primarily green but a little bit on the Siletz hybrids. About on performance trials look at some of these. Traits and relative majority in more details and then talk about Iraq's and microdots and that have been a concern for us here in Michigan and to expand on so having why the selection off focusing mainly on this a majority growth and planting it in traction so. Let's look at this. Trend in Michigan over the last on let's see she. Turn to five years of soft sudden from nineteen year date so you have gone in the doc. Shows you know. Number of bushes. State average and being at the bottom so as you can see and we have doing around two bushels a year which is pretty close to the US average and in case of setting we are going at around hot bushel a year again but it consistent. The US overall average. So that the two main factors that are driving this year's increase over the years number one New were Aisa new hybrid essentially new genetics that we have been receiving and number two is the is the new management right improved management practices in any inferior management practice all use of technology is our products so about like an equal supply between these two factors and today will be focusing pretty much on the genetic side of say that some implications from from management point of view. So quick overview off some of the selection criteria in Kong ran high bits so in Michigan which is so far north right our number one criteria is the maturity rating right you're competitive relative. Essentially and that Asian two are growing and growing region is important for us but this short growing season if I haven't slowed I don't need to worry about that right but here in Michigan we do and generally have we go with this reality majority ratings since a number of this. Essentially equal the number of days from emergence to fees allows a majority but they're more like a relative may off mic Jodi compared to a known high right so there's no specifics. And to that end it does vary across the company so if we look over here building relative maturity to growing degree days which is an accurate mayor of. Roles that ninety five day here in Lansing area is around twenty four hundred growing degree days so we can ask that information from the C D less instead off rather than majority of what the growing degree days for that specific I've met and I'll talk more about that the next is a year but Entia and Steve is the author of that right so essentially looking at any interaction off that. Genetics the environment our management scenario we're right so I got to a scenario here in the in the finger So here you're looking at either rank from one year on X. axis and a yield rank of a game forty don't the high bits in this case on biases and this sort of year this could be anything this could be a location as I and I do a revival to be in this lower in area right a high rank across these two year or so to locations so essentially looking at consistent minimum genetic buy in modern meant interaction does vying to be up here Vera that high that is not doing value or even some of these thoughts that it's high yielding invitee yet but really low evening in another year. Some of the other factors stock quality logging right if we are using we need to be able to harness that here and then on specific farm and field level disease and other insect best scenarios so we need that package and finally looking at the grain quality So today I'll be pretty much focusing on the maturity. And the green quality side of things so again we really need data mostly location multi-year right to be able to be based on all those areas I was talking about and one of the best source here in Michigan is a. Hybrid compared. Every year so this is a really good resource for looking at a hybrid performance over multiple locations and multi. Replicated unbiassed across multiple locations in in Michigan but this is a Vonzell and we can look at other universities will still Michigan Ohio Indiana or even on Garrido even looking at this constant and some extension trials or some industry and even from side by side comparisons to generic did I will be able to select our. So I'll provide a quick overview of our program so we divide Michigan into these five different zones based on the number of growing degree days accommodation right on higher accommodation higher numbers in the in the southernmost zone and it goes down as the move of the law confident that the ability not again we have divided these most of the lines and then didn't each zone we look at most a look Asian data so we have that performance of a given high bid over multiple environments so to speak so we've done each of these on we have these three look at look issuance for. On Green as well less on silent type it as you conceive of all these dots on this map and again the idea behind multiple locations is to be able to give us a performance of a given for. Across multiple environments and noticed that there's so much no we're all for. A year so we generally tend to rely on most a location for Fall of the specific OS. So great to publish that look at so you can go in there and look at the hybrid performance right and select the or form us. There is another source of the obvious that we do have a hit at Michigan State near you can go in and enter specific information and just be able to see the high bits that you are interested in for us location for you. So again provides you are really good resource to look at at VIR late specific data you are interested in so as an example over here you can select a year select as Conti is by look ition on this give you average across all three of these locations and then you can and does all of this other information and even be able to saw buy bushels for it or any other area and look for that information so as an example here I have picked in the seventeen in zone month on month on Day means across three locations and early trials and then sort of by bushel spar if and this is the out that I will receive and I just pick the top fifteen hybrids that do come up in that sort so here again these are going ised by a bushel spree from highest to lowest and if you look at this L.S.T. value at the very bottom you can figure out. Our farming hybrid for this area right so L.S.D. at five percent. Basically means that those specific. They didn't that five percent are. At there is a ninety five percent confidence level the difference between yield of those high bits and is due to defense and genetics and not some random variation on because of our emissions they have those thoughts so here if I use this eleven L.S.D.. And basically subject that number from two fifty eight I do come down to two forty here right so our list it high bit over here on performance desk similar to each other and then a higher than all of the seven at the bottom of this. So I'm not involved in a spec that I wanted to share here is what is the genetic differences. That exist between some of these hive it's the glue that we do receive in the program right so this slide over here provides Ukranian on by excess and then all these. Led by Lee and late. And then these Bos these vital numbers for alive you and average of. Bushes for each of these new patients the number I want to emphasize over here all these numbers in the ingredient there's a difference between the highest and the lowest yielding hybrid in that zone so across three locations and for. Each locations so a combination of data points and you can see these numbers vary anywhere between thirty to fifty bushels right so that is that genetic difference between a good and a bad vs looking at socialist you know importance of selecting a good performing performing hybrid. On some simulate day about now on looking at the Siletz side of things and they're here you can also again see that there were three years. We are getting a difference of around done spar almost twenty five percent difference in a niche our most ten percent difference in pounds of milk the quality of our meter and then overall toadie percent or about it powers and bonds of milk bar is over all so again shows you the importance of picking the right genetics in boats on green as well as on Siletz hybrids. Another important aspect in selecting hybrid is selection action of the extent that you want in that hybrid So the question generally comes is that is there. A genetic difference or a G.L. difference between some of these dates back to the US So over here this is an overview of twenty seventeen data in terms of the Every year Barry inch meaning the minimum met cement years as well as the number of hybrids in each of these. And. This second call here. That's the only one hundred we cite Blithers that resistance and the next took another is the ranks of the above ground insect resistance against your ear wants and then about and below ground insect this instance right so we most of our hybrid entries are in this above ground and beside resistance get angry. Really small numbers only have the side resistance but if you look at these and raise yields they are no different from each other right so they didn't four percent of each other and even if you look at the ranch. Again all over the place so this simply suggest that there is no yield difference both. Between these different hybrids. In conditions very don't have some of these insect issues right control issues so the baseline is is similar and invest on our farm are specific field conditions based on some of these the pressure or above or below ground insect. Issue so we can select these these tree it's. A similar data looking from. The spec there so here a sense not to mention a hybrid of these trials I can even compare all of these trips back to just survive my dimensional hype and again you can see that the trial numbers Arvid in forty five percent of each other no consistent trend in year one they are. So this becomes relevant because if you look at these input costs we can see over here in the last fifteen years or so of this city cost has been Almos to from two thousand and five here let's see almost forty five times so that is one of the biggest cost far far on production so picking the right rate back it becomes really important in and this high price in areas. So we did talk about relative maturity earlier right so I've been looking at. Trends in the data essentially looking at its. Relative majority against more ice or content and those variables right so in this graph over here I have relative majority on the X. axis and I have green yield on by far to the seventeen zone one did some using just don't want to emphasize my my point here and as you can see it be it is no trend in in green he fund would expect these late majority Heifetz to even higher right so basically like a sort of increase linear trend here but I did not see any any tradition. If you look at the moisture on bent on the same high that I do see a consistent increase in the in the more content that those late majority Heifetz So what does does is if I look at net three dunce accounting for that grand drawing cost and I'm using three twenty five and up I know five are pushing a point I do see have declined declining trend actually even believe majority so on losing money if I'm using some of these full season hype it's the dentist's own so this is twenty seven day new now so I went back and looked at the sixteen data here as well and I did see a similar response as you can see in Greeley I'm not seeing any trend whatsoever again an increase in moisture content that does that in this declining economic. Number into the sixteen similar data into the fifteen here again no trend in the consistent. In late majority exulting in this and decline in the in net the tons in. This is just dawn one day so. Just to give you an overview and a different very I looked at all trees on us so here I am presenting. Green yield differences between the late and early hybrids on via So essentially zero means that there is no difference and it was Dave number means a high bits are performed early and then other areas around if they are negative and the Xbox three resent three zones zone one two and create very have a supply between and let majority based on days. Numbers here at the bottom one a seven in zone Von Brunn a one in zone two and ninety seven in Zone three so I and I have been off all our seven year who are over here right so you can see for years differences on this NG a positive response and. Maybe nine psyche S. out of these twenty one total scenarios so showing that there was a full season late majority habits are performing a limited most of the time. On but when I look at the moisture difference now here again late minus early on saying but it consistently positive numbers and even to do month on five to as high as four and four in the Hoppus and increase in moisture content days late majority hybrids across all of these zones and the US right so what does that mean so again looking at the next three Dons using five cents per bushel on our unseeing net I have only four to five. Scenarios of I don't left on the runway at I'm making money using those. Right. So this an aerial is done at five cents so I am going to look at some up. Options here and if we look at the four percent scenario I have few most locations here now but still overwhelmingly are making more money probably in some of these live months compared to the live ones and even at three cents it's still sort of an equal supply and I'm not seeing a consistent trend to what those late majority hybrids so so far does that mean essentially. So far location that isn't. So far off like Michigan. This data suggests that some of these are. Adapted in the yield as much as those laid. Across all of these multiple locations and they all visit have a little more ice or con. Sold that results in net. Higher for the most part in in some of these limits already hybrids across most C.S. and locations so this is an addition to some of the other benefits in them software not reading about it in frost or being able to have a mouth for fall ill age and even some of these Microsoft and Asians that are. Next here. So again pretty much covered about the majority and in that he has bought and now we can look into the green quality aspect as essential looking from some of these micro ox and also called one. Issues here in Michigan right so. So I have a graduate student in Blenheim who is in jobs of this project and this was the first project I started and then it arrived here in going to sixteen because everybody was talking about some of these a green quality issues and some of the price docking that does that these and so I so and then I. Also that young via hybrid selection is important and a stock trike so essentially microdots and they are second in middle blights their use by some of these fungal species. In the field in the in the storage post-harvest and I'll be pretty much focusing on the feet of scenario because that's they have this problem because right and that's there we need to tackle this issue and by VIA by the import of these stocks and so I did get adversely effect the habit growth and development off of animals right so I'm starting of from looking at this low feed in big. Numbers and even looking beyond some of these nutritional issues in terms of reduced on thanks. Or absorption Ahmed of years and of some of the nutrients that that the animals do and consuming and then best does result in each of the immune system. Impacts and even the animal that has been reported so so so this mix this mike of oxen issue really valid point right so so how far how does microdots in a car in. Their cost by disease. In case of. So for any disease to AKA we look at this disease triangle so the first factor in that triangle is the presence of a susceptible cost right so we have to have that and we do have that in in Michigan right and I'll talk more about that and then we have to have a package and that can cause. This disease and we do have. This Out to you and that we're going to scare in in Michigan so generally we have these two factors. Of the label are. Hasn't in Michigan so what dry ice does you know and Mike about some issues on here the basis is that the environment and the favorable Ivette of emissions. That can drive then vent is issues I'm going to. So again let's begin with the first from the Haast So we have on hybrids present in Michigan right and did you have resistance against this. But it's not really high. On that scale so from a one to nine scale we're looking at on the up to four or five in terms of the systems and it's mostly I believe so could resistance and then we faced this issue off resistance and I'll talk about that a little bit later. And then some of these hybrid morphological tract dress for example or the house the various How effect that ear is in determine how much more it can hold and essentially impact. That very environment barometer we were talking about. Insect production becomes important here I mean so this fungus and just either through this series Janice all it can enter through on some of these injury wounds that. Caused by some of the insects for example Avestan being cut as you can see in this general area that that in just bought pretty much so as entry point for the fungus. In second drill in terms of using some of these traits like drive on the F. or repair a three A All the same with Scott and supreme management scenario becomes important as that. So that second company and of the disease strength of the data you write. Is that is the most important one here in Michigan it causes the. Z.-A ear out as you can see an undistinguished more on the on. Mostly on the gun knows it's there the fungus is entering through the seals Genoese all basically right around those insect bombs and this fungus but used to important microdots and biase even though Don also called Long and right that's the most common here in Michigan and really impart in Foster mind via F.D.A. has determined that anything below five ppm is optimal and anything about five is not zero in all these Another round that we have. Cause instability and abortion and then I gained entry methods are either through the silliest and those all through this. So some of that it is this just in we were talking about on high bits probably does vary in sets but when you have that open bond and in the house. And despond this does favor favorable. Vets rather conditions along the template just during or after safety so that second apartment practitioners physio him on what he says are best and this causes Kazimir as you can see in despair and this one causes him on a sense that you are really important because they are getting so so really important from green quality perspective and this month does favor vets but now moderates who are against will. And dramatics are the same so again. For any significant event ought to AKA it comes down to the environment around sixteen states for the most part in July and August so introduce sixteen when we have this most of this issue. You can see a lot of our new are green here in Michigan right. In the Vette season compared to a Tony year normal average so these weather conditions lead to some of those high microdots and but if we look at thirty seventeen we are seeing a lot of this yellow meaning dry season compared to a long time average so essentially destinations probably drew some of those New Year Mike about some concerns we have back into the seven eight in one of the reason the. Since have been still sporadic was we had this chart then go in July and August in Cornwall silky for the octomom got it right but now with this vest and being that Mitch if that happens even in the mid late August or early September you still have a scenario. That late in the season can still result in fungus and going into these areas and causing some of the year and Michael Jackson's so that vessel being damaged kind of throws a ball in and all of this very scenario that if the we generally look at. So. We did do a trifle into the seventeen to look at some of the management implications we had ninety occasions across different growing still growing zones in Michigan as seen and this figure sets of these locations circled that these red circles are very good apply a fungicide efficacious and sitting time around our one and we use for a line. History and then we have a combination of hybrid. Selections so we don't look at below average and about average yet out resistance to say if. That's pallets and selection again right and then we look that this bit of us is not to be hype it's essentially looking at the drive on F. for buses no longer live on air for a hybrid to see how they will impact vestment got wrong damage and that correlates to Iraq issues at three we might see so looking at some of the data here. Here on this figure we have Vesper been cut long incidents on X. axis meaning number of us in a lot that had Avestan been cut injury and Iraq incidents on via axis again number of yes the E.S.R. incidents and we did see a pretty significant correlation so point it ask here meaning. But image all the samples there we had in Iraq. We had a vest and B. got lung damage right and there was mainly driven by some of a sudden the IT ON days so this figure shows constant we had all of these locations and you can see these high numbers in India on these. We did not see much correlation between the severity of messed me against Iraq so here this severely number means number of those. Infected that have either vest a mean or E.R.O.I.. Symptoms on it right so this pretty much suggests that there that it is important it's more important for our IF to get damaged by a vestryman got. To have Iraq doesn't really matter hol much as severe of that damage is in see how many of those one was most people did not really matter for the incidence. When we looked at. Some of our high bit and bit Doggett drive an F. for trick we get say that of our investor who got long incidence give us the difference between our hybrids but if we look at this then the growth basically on of it the drive on a routine and and these green months are going to drive on we did not see any any benefit of using those drive on F five it's interesting if on's a has been talking about that right that drive an F. is not very thing. Do for protection against a vest and B. so we did see that in incidence as vélez in severity So again similar France here essentially showing fairly healthy. Against controlling best being cut long here. So when we looked at the hybrid resistance to Iraq and see if that did benefit us we did see some differences in hybrids as seen on this but again they're going to look that a comparison of below average and above average resistance we actually saw sort of an opposite trend to what we expected the first step that is below. Average rating you would expect a higher incidence here and we did not see that so the resistance than we had in the and some of these high bits did not really help us and we believe this is again going back to that and deep thoughts now that there is the fungus is entering through serious down else there might be some benefit of this resistance but if it's entering so those best mom who wants. This Knesset resistance in the high bits might not help at all. And we did not see any any difference between high boots on the severe. Data So looking at fungicide efficacy can we actually. I have not see any benefit of applying fungicide in terms of controlling disease from incidence as well less severe levels so we did not see the benefit of getting fungicide application at the time of sifting. And we believe this might be because of some of the. Rich. At that time or even going back to the same idea that the fungicide are supposed to protect the silks but if the fungus is entering through those Mr Mom who wants this might not benefit. We don't see the benefit off fungicide on the activity as you can see on this figure on the Right about five bushels increase across all of our locations and I believe this goes back. To the idea that this fungicide application is helping control some of these Folliot diseases. And graves and not on the fly and we do have some data on that that we are analyzing and seeing is is this is there up to ensure a benefit or a yield. Advantage in India from the side application So overall we did see a automation IT investment at moment Iraq's we did not see any benefit of drive on our hybrid selection in terms of resistance. Even funny side applications did not help us in this case and here really looking at the era we are still getting on some of the Michael Ochs and houses so it would be interesting to see how these auditions were some of those extra. So in terms of overall management I think we need to follow the interior to approach starting with some of these cultural practices in terms of crop rotation. And managing value that is in the source by. Ilitch and again operation. And then the keep an eye on hybrid selection still right as we improve on those resistance level controlling vestment being cut through use of these tricks of scouting and spraying it is going to be important long long and unfunny side application data might be some benefit but right now we are seeing very inconsistent results do not see any any benefit from that money and we will be repeating these trials and the year in and see if we do see some benefit. Aright So moving on to that into the last complement of our. Soybean variety selection. Right so here when we look at some of the selection criteria they're somewhat similar to what we talked about in gone right at that patient or device maturity grow into play right because for the beauty of sense too we really need to make sure that we are growing a variety that is adapted to our. Sean Connelly out of his concent just came out with the new data on the RE and if you find some of these are in the two zones and that includes some of the disconsolate out here he has pretty much. Free Zones for for Michigan setting that one point five in the last two point zero and in the mid area and then two point five in the southern counties so so again I think this is very useful information for us and again going beyond that we're looking at Heald potential as a less stable as the of that would ensure right so looking at. Top performance as well as consistent performance so that goes back to this by environment interaction so it just isn't as I mentioned I have these four hybrid. And I have yield environment on not on X X S Devon by any and you have on the mission of year that the uterus locations are. On So ideally you don't want these high bits that are inconsistent across multiple environments right. RB or even see a that does not mean that he so we want a high bit of variety here. In so I mean actually so so we need our ID that is pretty consistent for example this D here across these multiple environments right so we need more data and that goes back to some of these performance drives that we conduct here and that. And then again we're looking at some of the site specific. Scenarios for best management. Standards the shoes and then Vonn that I want to emphasize today is on looking at this green composition. And I'll talk a little bit about that here so again similar to on we have. A homicide program here we're going as well as a Dean obviously you can go and again search for us this is big but I mean just and be able to just scan tool that did not have a gun sitting through and reading through this school will. These other sites that all of these are for mistrials are connected in so I mean why this. So looking at that aspect that I want to talk about today is is the selection of majority groups so this did I share off or send those off on the left and sometimes on the right is an average Joe. It's yes of they're not cross all full locations so majority groups on X. axis and then yield on my X. and you can see in the center location we are not seen any trend of basically in trees in the live in the increase in majority group in some time zone we're seeing some damage but it's pretty much driven by these two data points down here so again not consistent. Trends and. All of this did ice coming from landing at one time so some of the dry looks that that can change these these scenarios basically are looking at a growing season right so very very early plant and the growing season and the kind of environment conditions we've faced unit growing season so that's very and I think there is an opportunity to many players these majority groups very stoned out on the front of Yes and here's some do you know from. They have shown that. If you are planting are under normal vision though possibly much just over here Nicky your average this near you not want is not much different from you admitted majority by this excess and then not even you. Your boss minus error is is not too far off but if you look at the landing scenario that's where you will start seeing the benefit of using probably a longer majority group you're right so so I think there there there are some management implications here is and. What both of these majority group and blinding decks can do is that they're introducing variability in terms of growing conditions so they will have employee issuance not only on the year but on the quality or on Beatrice as well and that very become important in Inception in future. On this. So we did conduct a study into the seventeen looking at planting it by majority grow up among other factors and you can see this is a quick overview of far a field thoughts and you can see the gaps here and there were all under the scenario when we had a pounding rain right off. That we did so because of that year numbers that you do see over here in. Lower than in mid May and then on landing dead give us lowest. So even though this number is the low but that risk. But a good number considering. Really low and that So this high number I believe us Dave and by this. Relation off sitting at it on a. Sexist. Not all men eat every says but I'm a blond pieces you can see Abbie's a hundred thousand or even up to fifty thousand. These numbers on a per plant this is a pretty consistent but once you start going really Dom those numbers shoot up so again we are not remembering this really laureates but you will see. The plasticity that seven plant has an accounting for for those last chance so under ideal conditions I would expect this number to be somewhere up here based on some other research. And we did not see any planting Good by Miss Jody group interaction here and I believe we did not stay to do basically the extremes here so looking at the majority groups again set some benefit in a full season in the league and running scenario but no significant differences. When I look at the seed quality So this is what I was talking about before that by many building planting date and maturity grow up your so I beams then they are in that seed feeling stage for that are five two are seven states is going to under a different growing environment right so that they have implication in terms of protein content and some of the Indian assets and fatty acids so here looking at uploading data at dead basically go up significantly as we delayed our India opposite due to our trends and if we look at the oil data it did go down but then we've had a bomb at the end of the season so essentially if we again look at this. Landing bit. By majority group we are seeing an increase improving contact with the delay in planting and probably a decline in oil content right. And from last light we know that. The year is probably again this number would be she had an epiphany yet that declines so we are seeing a pause Dave coalitional for higher yields as well as high all oils on and that the only plan but then the opposite trend in the protein content so. We need to eat and I am N's use of our product right here that if the goal is to have high protein content there are some management indications if we go then the at least on going on that the longer majority grow up we might not be able to have that high protein content. Implications and this goes back to again some of those environmental conditions that. Are five to seven growth stitch So this is somebody now from Wisconsin and this is probably a lot of information here but again shows you the brand of. Against this planting deer and majority growth and what we are seeing over here is that planting at least in the in the season using a longer majority group is giving us a yield boost not so much in the in the shot majority group but we do see that in the long maturity group and that does decline as the delayed. Simulate and an oil that would have delayed landing but all gone and declines across on majority groups so. Mainly driven by planting did he have other than the majority growth if we look at the fruit in content it goes up as it actually goes up that billion plant in B.. So I think this again goes back to the embryo just at. Five to our seven and we can see that over here now on a X X as we have temperature and under those long conditions that they saw in the early plantings their last a year benefit. And an increase in oil content under those long conditions but then again that decline in protein content so there is again and interaction that that plays out in down south to having high yields and content with us is a high profile incontinent and we need to eat that in mind then we are selecting days. To grow so also that to grow but planting that interaction becomes really important from the green composition. And that's all I have to sit. On it Eric I say there are there any questions. It's things many urge everyone this is your time to ask for saying any questions you've got while you are thinking of questions and type in the one that was submitted earlier do you have the silence quality or Mo comparison for transgenic versus conventional ha so now that's a really good question that's what I have been looking that actually right now I wasn't able to follow the data to gather far for this talk but that is one aspect that I am looking at and there was a comment made in one of my extension box before looking at those smokestacks who else is there some of the mention of hybrids so. This from some of the literature I was looking in I I didn't see any consistent trends but again I need to look at our Michigan specific data and see if we are seeing any any trends there and I'm planning to do more research on that aspect so I mean I'm looking at like some of. These hybrid interactions that. Sitting there it's populations and see how that impacts not only yield but the quality which is more important right so we'll probably have more data as we go along here from the bye bye next year if not before. All right so for those who have done this before. Are ye credits. Or pesticide. Recertification credits whatever you want to call what we're doing this year is we're asking you to go onto this call tricks website which I will. Actually James if you're on it he could post I didn't see the chat otherwise try stop sharing of them have put that in there's this you don't have to try to sort through all those characters and type those anyway so you'll put that address into the U.R.L. and I'll come up with this call tricks kind of like a survey but it's basically just a way for us to make it easy person who will end up submitting of these.