Cover Crops: Fitting into your System

February 17, 2021

Video Transcript

So I'd like to welcome everyone. Good morning, and welcome to the Michigan Ag, "Ideas to Grow With" virtual conference. This is kind of a new format. So we're kind of excited about that. Just to let everyone know that this session is being recorded. So if you wanna watch it at a later date, and also if you have your, if you don't mute your video, you may should show up on the recording and that's fine. We, you know, we invite you to do either. My name is Paul Gross. I am an extension educator in central Michigan, field crops, cover crops and soil health. And it's my pleasure today to introduce Dean Baas and his title is gonna be "Cover Crops: Fitting Them into Your System", but just a reminder before we do that, that CCA credits and our UP credits are gonna be available. What we'd like you to do if you'd like to get the CCA credits, we need to have your name, your full name, how it appears on your license. And if you need to change your name, you need to change, just go into click on participant list, hover over your name, and then you'll be able to change it to put your name in. So it isn't a tablet as identified. So we need to identify you so you can get credits for the program today. We're gonna, first off we're gonna start off before we get into the cover crop presentation, and we're gonna play a short video, you know, we care for crops and animals, but we need to care for ourselves. So we're gonna start with a short farm stress video. - You know, somebody just texted here that they didn't get the surveyed for the last class. And how do they get it? - One of the ways we'll do that, was that John that asked that question? What you can do is you can email Dean or myself or Christina, and we'll make sure that they get proper credits for it, so we know who it is. - Paul, I'm gonna put my email in the chat box. So if you email your information to me, I will make sure that happens. - Okay. - Hi, my name is Eric Karbowski and I'm a behavioral health educator with MSU Extension that focuses on farm stress with your farm stress tip. We know that farmers are an independent culture and oftentimes are the last ones to reach out for help, but do you ever feel yourself feeling down during the gray sky days of winter? If you do, you may be experiencing seasonal, effective disorder. In most cases, seasonal affective disorder symptoms appear during the late fall, or early winter, and oftentimes go away in the sunier days of spring and summer. Some signs and symptoms of people that experience seasonal affective disorder might include, feeling depressed, loss of interest in activities that you once enjoyed, having low energy or feeling tired a lot of the day, experiencing changes in your appetite. It could be weight gain, or significant weight loss, feeling sluggish or agitated, having difficulty concentrating, or maybe feeling hopeless, worthless, or guilty. And so next time you look up at the sky and see the gray clouds and notice yourself feeling a little down, knowing that there are many days in the winter months ahead, take a deep breath, know that you're not alone, and sometimes it's okay not to feel okay, but also know that there are a lot of supports available to you. And many of those supports and resources can be found on our MSU Extension farm stress website, and know that there are a lot of people that are working very hard behind the scenes to support you as you support us. Thank you and have a great day. - Very good, very important message. If you'd wanna learn more about farm stress, there's gonna be a session on Friday at 11 o'clock, session on farm stress. So before I introduce Dean and let him go, I got to back up just a little bit and when we had the opening slide, we had our sponsors listed. We really appreciate their sponsorship. It allows this program to happen without any costs. So with that, Dean welcome and the floor is yours. - Okay, thank you Paul. I'm Dean Baas, I'm sustainable Ag educator from Michigan State University Extension. I've worked statewide. I'm located out of the St. Joseph office, and we're gonna spend some time talking about fitting cover crops into your system. Give you some thoughts on how to do that, things to consider, and really fitting them into your rotation, it's really a process, and there's some things you need to identify. We like to tell everybody that you need to have a reason to grow cover crops. What's your goals? And when you look at the goal that you have, what types of cover crops will meet those goals? Not all cover crops are good for every goal, and in addition to that, some cover crops have multiple goals. And so, you know, don't just think about one goal, maybe think about multiple goals. Once you've identified your goals, or types of cover crops, then you need to look at the planting windows. We're gonna talk about when do cover crops grow the best, and then let's not forget your cash crop. What are your cash crop planning windows? When does a cash crop in the field? What is the relationship of your cover crop to your cash crop gonna be? And then we need to consider equipment requirements. What do you have to be able to seed the cover crops the way you might wanna seed them? Or can you borrow equipment from someone or potentially run it or contract the seeding to be done? Then we have a few other considerations we're gonna look at and then we'll talk a little bit about some resources to help you with your decisions. So let's get started with goals and types of cover crops. And this is gonna kind of be a chart that I'm gonna use throughout the presentation. You can see the cover crops listed on the top there. For now, ignore the time of year. We'll get into that in a minute here, but you can see this is a list of cover crops that can typically be used in Michigan. These are ones that are recommended within the state. Within these groups, we have different functional types. First one being grasses. You can see those are green here, and the grasses when it comes to goals, they're excellent erosion fighters. They're excellent N scavengers. They're good soil builders. If you'd like good lasting residue, grasses are a good source of that. And because of that, they can also be good weed fighters. So these are some of the attributes grasses have, more spreading type rooting systems tend to have a like shorter growth habit, more of a single single plant, plants with tillers. Those are the types of leaves that you can see here on annual ryegrass, cereal rye and oats. The next category of plant type is legumes. You can see those are in red in the list. They're excellent nitrogen sources. They're good erosion fighters, not quite as good as grasses. They're good soil builders. Because of the type of root that they have, they're good soil loosener, but they are poor N scavengers. Legumes produce nitrogen, so they don't scavenge a whole lot of nitrogen. So this is where, when you're looking at your goals, do you want a nitrogen source, or do you want a nitrogen scavenger? That's where you start making choices between things like grasses and legumes. They tend to be poor weed fighters. They're fairly slow to emerge. And because of that, it's really easy for weeds to get ahead of them. And because of that, their growth habit, they're not quite as good at providing that coverage for weed fighting. We've got some pictures here. Here's hairy vetch. This is red clover, which is, you can see has been proceeded into wheat. And this is crimson clover. The final type that we're gonna talk about is the non-legume broadleaves. These include the brassicas. They're in purple on the chart here. They're excellent N scavengers. They're really known for quick growth. The, particularly the brassicas like to get up and get growing quick and make some excellent soil builders because of the types of roots. When you think of the roots out of radishes and turnips, those types of brassicas, it gives you good soil building organic matter, that also makes them an excellent soil looser. They're good to excellent for weed fighting capability. Brassicas do contain some compounds that help aid in fighting weeds. And we like to think of brassicas, if you're looking for plant diversity. In a lot of our cropping systems, they're pretty much corn and soybeans and wheat. You're looking at grasses and legumes. If you wanna get some additional diversity in there, the non-legume broadleaves and particularly the brassicas can bring that diversity to your system. Another goal to think about when you're picking cover crops is what do you wanna do for termination? Do you want a cover crop that reliably winter kills? Those are now in italics and bolded in the list. You can see here, you have things like radishes and turnips, mustards, oats, winterkills, the summer annuals, millet, sorghum, stan grass, sorghum, stray-sudangrass. These are the types of things that will reliably winter kill in Michigan. And I wanted to point out in the picture here, the picture to your left is a oats and radish mixture, and that was totally winter killed, but note the residue that you have in the spring. You know, some people feel like if they have a cover crop that winter kills, that they won't get a benefit in the spring, but this residue and the dead roots in the ground are gonna give you some erosion protection, holds your soil together, and also help build that soil or organic matter without carbon being added to the system. That's opposed to something like the cereal rye. You can see the spring growth in the picture on the right, and that's gonna take some termination. You're gonna have to either till it, or use a herbicide or some way to terminate that cover crop. So next I wanna talk a little bit about the life cycles of these different types of cover crops. I like to tell people, you need to think like your cover crop. What conditions do you like to grow in? What conditions do you flourish in? Do you establish well in? You can see we have different categories here starting at the top. You have fall cover crops, and we're pretty much stuck with the winter cereals. I'd like to note that this is an overlap area here in the brown area there, that these fall and late summer early fall do overlap in their timing there, and that's what that center area represents. But the next category is the late summer early fall cover crops. These are cover crops tend to be cool season annuals, winter annuals. These are the types of plants that like more of a cooler climate. They don't like to grow well in the heat of summer. And so those tend to be planted in the August, September timeframe. Then we moved to the summer annuals. These are plants that liked the heat. They like to grow in the summer, particularly things like sorghum-sudangrass, sorghum and sudangrass. A lot of the clovers will grow through that period. They don't particularly like it, but they will tolerate it. Oats grows as well during that period. Then we have some spring cover crops, things that can be growing in the spring, oats, red clover, sweet clover, some of the brassicas, the spring grains, annual rye grass. These can get started early in the season and fit into that planting window. And then let's not forget about frost seeding, things like red clover and sweet clover. But what I like to point out is that these species have different growth patterns, what they like to see for heat and moisture, and if you plant them outside of the recommended window, it will affect the results. If you try to force a summer annual at the end of the year, it's barely gonna get going. There's not a lot of heat to get it going. And as soon as you get it frost, it's gonna winter kill. So you need to start thinking about for the goals that you want and the cover crops that can meet those goals, what type of planning windows do you have available for those? We also use as a rule of thumb that you need a minimum of six weeks of good growth, if you want to reap any of the benefits from a cover crop, that's kind of a minimum. So again, if you're forcing it outside the period and you're not gonna get good growth and you're not gonna get that six weeks of growth, then you're probably not gonna get any benefit from your cover crop. So the bottom line on it is research the species. Once you get an idea of what you might be interested, take that next step and look at what type of plant it is. When does it like to grow? When will it do the best in your system? So this next slide shows some of the the infield seasons for different row crops in Michigan. This was pulled from the Ag statistics. These are usual planting and harvest states realized that sometimes it will be later, sometimes it will be earlier, but this is just kind of a general idea of when these crops are in the field. So you start looking at this and seeing what periods do you have open and what periods might you be able to use a cover crop? So we're gonna go ahead and overlay the two. And now you start seeing things kind of come together a little bit here as to what type of cover crop might work in different periods within the cash cropping system. We're gonna go through of each of the periods, but you can see right here, it's pretty obvious when with our corn and soybean systems, that, you know, you're really limited on your choices. You don't have a lot of things available that is an ideal growing period after those crops, after harvesting those crops. So you're really limited to cereal, the winter cereal, cereal rye, winter wheat, winter triticale, winter barley. And, you know, you might as well not even really be looking at some of these other types of cover crops because they're just not gonna do well in that period. Cover crop goals depend on when you can plant them. You know, again, planning outside the recommended window will affect the results. And the other thing to keep in mind if you're going to plant them, interseed it into the cash crop, is there gonna be competition from the cash crop? How is that gonna affect the cover crop? Is it a shade tolerant? And then the opposite is also true, you don't wanna provide competition to the cash crop. So let's start looking at some of the different periods that we have available for putting cover crops into these systems. We'll talk just for a little bit here about pre-plant. One of the really good solutions if you grow a small grain is to frost seed. This is really successful in Michigan. A lot of people frost seed red clover, particularly into wheat. It does well, you spread the seed and the snow just at the end of snow melt, while the ground is still froze, that keeps you from having issues from compaction, gets the seed out there. And then we let mother nature work it in through the freeze, freeze thaw and the melting cycle. So that's something to consider if you do grow a small grain. If you look at ahead of our typical other grain crops like corn, soybeans, sugarbeets, potatoes, that's really a very short window to look at putting a cover crop in and planting it in the spring. It's not particularly warm at that period in time, the soil's temperature is not that warm. And so even though you can get to the cover crop to establish, growth is gonna be limited for that first period. So we really recommend if you want to have a cover crop growing in the period before the cash trap in the spring, that you really need to plant a winter hardy one in the fall, and then it will get started in the spring and be well-established in the spring to give you growth during that period before your cash crop. Some of the equipment that you can use in this period. This is a picture of frost seeding. Basically you can broadcasts the seed on top of the snow. You can do it with different types of even fertilizer spreader, type feeders. People will put those on quads and run those across. There's a lot of different ways you can get the seed out there for frost seeding. In these other periods, if you are gonna try to plan something ahead of your cash trap, you can use a drill broadcast seeders, or you can even do some where you do vertical tail and add seeding equivalent to the vertical tail, so you can do two operations at once. Another consideration for pre-plant is planting green. This is something a lot of farmers are looking at, particularly with beans. You plan to beans into standing cereal rye, and then determinate one to four days after planting by either herbicides. And if you do that, you can leave it standing or you can roll it down, or if you're organic, and don't use herbicides, you can terminate with a roller crimper. This provides a really nice mat of cover crop for weed control. And this is a technique that's being looked at more and more for herbicide resistant weed control. It also gives you a little more flexibility in the spring that you can terminate later, and you're not in quite as much of a bind on getting the cover crop terminated a week or two prior to planting your cash crop. This is a picture of planting directly into cereal rye. This is planting beans at KBS, and you can see the rye is still standing. You don't need to roll it down or do anything to it before you plant. Just plant directly into it with a no-till planter. And then the picture on the bottom shows the beans emerging and you can see what type of a residue mat that we have, and you can imagine how that helps you with weed control. The next period that we wanna consider, is after harvest. This tends to be the most popular time to plant cover crops. So when you look at the different cropping systems here, you can see that after corn and soybeans, this ends up being a shorter window. It's pretty short. You really have to use one of the winter hardy cover crops in this window. You have a little bit of an opportunity here with stylish corn and seed corn, that you can slip in some of these other types of crops dependent on when you harvest. These are the latest harvesting dates. If you harvest these earlier, you can get into some of the late summer early fall combinations. The best window is after small grains. See you have a lot of different types of cover crops you can get into in this window. And that's why you see a lot of people using mixes in this window. And part of that is because you have the opportunity to use cover crops and have a substantial growing season for cover crops, a much wider diversity of cover crops including legumes and brassicas. So that is the best window that we have in our cropping system. It gives you the most options, and you also have the opportunity to put mixes in that window. At that point, you can pretty much use just about anything to plant your cover crops in that window. People are using planters. The drill and broadcast seeding are still pretty popular and people are again, integrating cover crop seeding into some tillage as with the vertical tillage equipment with the cover crop air seeder monitor to that equipment. The other thing from a broadcast standpoint, you can consider mixing cover crops in with say a lime or potash, it might be put on at that time. So again, you can save a pass and do a double duty cover crops and contributing to your soil fertility. You're starting to hear about people doing more and more interseeding. We have a window that we call late interseeding. This is planting into a standing corn or a standing soybeans later in the season. This usually requires either aerial seeding or a high clearance vehicle. People are starting to play with drones to do this type of seeding, although the capacity is really not there to do large areas yet. If you're gonna do late interseeding into beans, you really need to wait till after leaf yellow. If you try to do it before that period, you end up with a difficulty getting the cover crop established. You have to get the cover crop seed through that bean canopy, and if any of you have ever worked under a soybean canopy, you know how dark and humid that environment is. So we need the beans to open up a little bit. When it comes to corn, that's a little more open. And so you can go earlier with corn, get it to the ground, and as the corn starts to settle, it will open up further and get that cover crop started. The benefit of doing this again is you see you got more options here. As cover crop choices, that gets you back into these late summer, early fall cover crops, where you can use everything from oats stay annual ryegrass, crimson clover, throw in some radish, maybe some rapeseed. That's the benefit of going a little bit earlier and getting something growing at the end of your crop growth. Moisture is really critical to establishment during this period. So we really recommended that you try to time the cover crop seeding with hopefully an upcoming moisture event, so that there's moisture to get the cover crop started. If you happen to be lucky and be irrigated, we recommend watering in the cover crops, put them on during this period, turn the irrigation on and get them watered in, give them a good start. This is the equipment that's gonna be needed to seed cover crops during this time. You gonna need need your own airplane or someone who's got an airplane who can do aerial seeding. We're seeing more and more availability of things like the highboy cedars, like the one picture here from Hagie that allows getting through tall crops and has drop tubes to get the cover crop seeds down to the ground. This is a picture of a drone that's being used for some cover crop seeding, but you can see the capacity is really limited on that. The last thing I wanna point out here is there some people who are incorporating cover crops seeding, excuse me, into their harvest operation by dropping the cover crop seed right behind the combine header. This works well, it gets the seed down into the soil, and then it gets covered up by the residue as the combine passes. This is a way to incorporate seeding cover crops into another operation like harvesting. Although a limiting factor on this method is the hopper size on the feeder. It can slow down harvesting as you have to stop to refill of the hopper. We're beginning to hear more and more about early interseeding into corn. This is something that we're doing research on at MSU and a lot of other organizations around the country are looking at this, as well as a lot of farmers. Farmers have built equipment to use this planting window. It is done between B3 and V6 corn and these either green corn, or stylish corn. And there's also an opportunity to come in during this time after railroad destruction in seed corn, when things are opened up and you can get in. Again this requires higher clearance equipment, not necessarily as high as a highboy, but you do need higher clearance equipment. Same thing holds during this period, moisture is critical, and if you irrigate it, we recommend watering those cover crops. You can see we've now moved in to even more cover crop opportunities in this window. And typically during this time mixtures are used in this scenario. The cover crops will get established. I'll tell you right now, they don't look real good during the middle of corn growth, but once the corn opens up, the cover crops will take off and give you really good coverage. Excuse me. Here's some of the equipment that you need for interceding into corn. This is the Penn state inner Cedar. It's basically a drill with units removed where the rows are and is raised up so you can give through standing corn. This actually drills directly into the soil. So it gives you a good seed soil contact. This is a unit that we use at KBS. It's basically a rotary hole with an air seeder mounted on it with units removed at the rows. This allows us to distribute the seed and then scuff it in with the rotary hole. Some people are just broadcasting, just going through with a broadcast seeder that's elevated and not incorporating. You could use the highboy in this situation, but this is something that you have to play with. You may have to develop some equivalent or buy some specialized equipment to use this technique, but I also wanted to show you this picture here of corn that has been been interseeded in at V5, and what it looked like at harvest. You can see that once that has opened up, that interseeded cover crop has taken off and really gives you a well-established cover crop going into the fall. So I've been looking at this early interseeding or just interseeding in general, and I found in the SARE/CTIC 2019 to 2020 National Cover Crop Survey, they asked the question, what percentage of cover crops are typically seeded prior to cash crop harvest, either late or early. And I was surprised to see that 50% of the close to a thousand farmers surveyed were doing some type of seeding of cover crops prior to harvest. Now, I'm sure there's a portion of that that is aerial seeding, but we're seeing more and more of the earlier seeding going on. I thought it was pretty interesting that 15% of those farmers were seeding 80 to a hundred percent of their cover crops prior to cash crop harvest. And then above the same percentage, was only doing up to about 20%. But you can see that this is something that's beginning to be used more and more. It's something that you may wanna start taking a look at, reading up on, and gathering information and deciding if it might be something that you wanna try. Some other things to consider, particularly when you're looking at interseeding, but it's good in general, when you're looking at putting cover crops in, is to take a look at your herbicide plan. Make sure that you're not using herbicides that are gonna provide carry over and adversely affect your cover crops. And in particular, that early interseeding period, you're gonna have to modify your herbicide plan to ensure that that those cover crops, because you will be planting those at a time when a lot of herbicides could continue to provide herbicide interaction or carry over. There's tables out there on the internet, like this one from Penn State University, that goes through all the different herbicides and what their potential interaction could be. And then also recommend the Michigan State University, weed control a guide for fuel crops, that has a lot of valuable information about the use of herbicides, and when some of these interactions might be. So putting it all together, I know this is a pretty messy slide and I don't really mean for you to look at anything in detail on it. This basically shows all the different opportunities for using cover crops in these systems and the equipment, but in the end, I go back to the process. You know, if you take it step by step, you know, pick your goals, pick your cover crops, then start looking at your planning windows and identify planting windows that will work, looking at not only the cash crop, but the cover crop. Take a look at your equipment requirements, and think about your herbicides. And then there's a lot of resources out there to help you as you work through these different decisions. The first one I'll recommend is the Midwest Cover Crops Council. Their website is Note that they're holding their annual conference next week. So you can go to this site, if you'd like to check into the Midwest Cover Crop Council conferences being held out of Ontario this year, and it is virtual. So you can get online and attend. And I like to tell Michigan farmers to definitely take a look at what comes out of Ontario, because if there's one spot that's similar to Michigan in climate and soils, it's Ontario. So you may wanna consider the conference, but they also have on their website a decision tool where you can put in your county, you can put in your goals you're interested in, and it will help you sort through the information about what cover crops can deliver what goals and what the recommended planting periods are for those cover crops. This is even more specific than the chart that I have been showing, because it is developed using frost data from specifically for each county. The website is mobile friendly, so you can get it on your cell phone if you need to and look up information. They also have a cover crop field guide, which you can buy from the education store at Purdue, they run about $5. It's a good pocket guide with a lot of cover crop information. I also recommend the Sustainable Ag Research and Education program, SARE for their resources. They publish the Bible of cover crops, "Managing Cover Crops Profitably". You can buy it as a book, or you can download it for free as a PDF on computer. They have a lot of other books and bulletins that can be helpful as you're looking through different cover crop options. Don't wanna forget the MSU cover crop team. We have a website You can see over here to the right, this is the list of everybody who's a part of that team. We are all resources to help you with these types of decisions and to help you as you consider fitting cover crops in your rotations. Give us a call. I like to tell people this is what we get paid for. So don't be afraid to use us. So that's pretty much what I have. I'd like to thank everybody for attending the presentation. I'd be happy to take any questions that you might have. - Dean, there's a couple of questions in the chat box. One is we're on a hill slope, maintaining alleys and permaculture orchard stands. We have seeded a red ladino clover to success. Getting ready to see cow pastures. Can one frost seed on snow? - Yes, you can frost seed on snow. It is a way of renovating pastures. And so that can be done. The thing to keep in mind, only small seeded cover crops really worked for frost seeding. You wanna stay away from the bigger seeded cover crops. So things like clover work really well because they're frost seeded. A seed size can really impact the effectiveness of frost seeding. So keep it to the small seeds. Get out there at the tail end of the snow while the ground is still frozen, and then it'll work, the freestyle cycle will work in the cover crop seed. - So Dean, there's kind of a follow-up question from Medaline, and then I think you sort of answered, you just answered it, and is this that we cannot expose hillsides as a conservation measure aside from clover which can be interseeded. What other cover crops can be interseeded or broadcast successfully? - I mean, if you're just interseeding, you know, really a lot of the different cover crops will do well. What you do wanna pay attention to is shade tolerance if you're gonna interseed something. If it's not very shade tolerant, it's not gonna do very well. You want something that's not gonna compete with your cash crops. So if it is a climbing type plant, you know, things potentially like cow peas and things like that, hairy vetch could, if planted early enough into your cash crop, could provide some difficulties at harvest time, because they can climb up and interfere with harvest equipment. So, you know, really recommend things that have lower growth habits, things like grasses, some of the clovers, things that will be held back by your cash crop until the canopy opens up. - Okay, very good Dean. Thank you. I think some of that's gonna be addressed in the next session with Phil. - Yeah, I forgot to point that out when I was on that side. I hope everybody saw that. You know, one of the goals for using cover crops is to use them as forage. I didn't really cover that in my presentation, so I recommend anybody and everybody attend the next session where Phil Cates is gonna talk in particular about cover crops as forages and the considerations that are involved in using them in that niche. - And there's another one that Gretchen here. It's, I don't know if you want me to read it, or if you wanna read it, but I can go ahead. Newbie here. We want to start planting crops for our sheep to munch on, but I don't understand how planting a cover crop that would be nutritious for them, and then planting a cash crop that would be nutritious for them could possibly be good for the soil. Wouldn't it trash the soil? Same nutrient pullout. Sorry for the improper terminology. I just read it from the question though. - That's pretty interesting because I was on a meeting yesterday where we were talking about some cover crops in an organic system. And actually when you have, when the combination of livestock with cover crops, the cover crops help recycle those nutrients. You know, the cover crop takes up the nutrients, the animals will digest them and then return the manure to the field, and that really does a lot in helping make that a really biologically active soil builder to the soil. So they're actually a good combination. People are starting to look at integrating livestock back into the system, using those to graze their cover crops, and then help return those nutrients back to the soil and actually speed up the soil building process through the use of animals. - Okay, we got time for one more. We're kind of getting toward the end of our time. And William has one is Dutch, is white desk clover desirable cover crop? And then we'll have to wrap up. - Okay, so we don't typically recommend white clover particularly in our row crop type systems. They tend to be used more in orchard type systems or blueberries, some of those types of systems. Part of the reason is that they're a really slow starter. It takes quite a while to establish a good stand of white clover. And during that lag time, we tend to see increased weed pressure. So we tend to prefer things that get started a little bit quicker than a white clover, but they do have their spot in alley type systems and are really good at taking traffic well. So there are some situations where they're recommended, but not real props. - Okay, thank you, Dean. You laid it out really nice. There is, if my theory is live roots 24 seven 365, so there's no excuses after your presentation. There's a lot of ways to get them in and a lot of windows, so that's great. So I'd like to thank Dean. Appreciate your sharing that information with us today. Just a reminder that this is gonna be recorded, and you'll be able to see it in a couple of weeks. If you want the RUP or CCA credits, we put it into the chat box a link to follow after we're completed. Click the link, you'll have an opportunity to answer the questionnaire and then you will go right to the RUP CCA information. If you have trouble with that, and we've had it in the first session, make sure you email Christina, myself or Dean, and we'll make sure we get your name and number and get you credit for your CCA or RUP credits today. So it's been great having everyone here today. Anything, any last comments Dean before we close? - No, I'm good. I appreciate everybody listening and coming to the presentation and recommend that you come to the next one as well. - Thanks again, everyone. Please enjoy the rest of the day, but we'd also like to see you in the next session. So thank you very much.