Irrigation Webinar Series - Session 4, August 18

August 18, 2021

This six session series focuses on irrigation topics such as irrigation management, irrigation efficiency, new and expanding irrigation projects and a weather and crop update.

Topics that will be covered each week:

  • Past and forecasted crop water usage compared to rainfall for the last week and next week. (5 minutes)
  • Ways to improve irrigation management and efficiency – Irrigation Specialist from MSU and Purdue (15 minutes)
  • New and expanding irrigation considerations – Lyndon Kelley, MSU/Purdue Extension - Irrigation Educator (15 minutes)
  • Updates on irrigation topics related to field crops, vegetable, fruit and ornamental crops by MSU and Purdue specialists and extension educators (15 minutes)
  • Open Irrigation question and answer period (from chat or pre-submitted e-mail questions). Please feel free to email irrigation related questions to Betsy Braid at before the programs.

Sessions will be held every other week on Wednesdays at Noon. They began on July 7 and conclude on September 15.

August 18 Agenda

  • Irrigation management and efficiency – Dr. Younsuk Dong , MSU BAE-Irrigation Specialist
  • Irrigating fresh market vegetables for top quality – Dr. Ron Goldy, MSU Vegetable Educator Emeritus
  • Irrigating tree fruit - Nikki Rothwell, MSU Tree Fruit Educator, Northwest Horticulture Experiment Station
  • Irrigation for Ornamental Horticulture – Dr. Tom Fernandez

Video Transcript

 And welcome to our Irrigation Webinar Series program. We have a pretty good program today. We're going to talk about irrigating crops other than corn and soybeans. And so we're going to start off with a little bit of an update on what the weather was like over the last couple weeks and evapotranspiration, we're going to move directly into talking about irrigating vegetable crops with Ron Goldy and ornamentals with Tom Fernandez. So and hopefully we get Nikki Rafwal down today on a training mission down in Southwest Michigan. So hopefully she join us by phone. and we'll talk a little bit about sizing fruit there as well. So I will share my screen if I can make that happen. Let's see. Here, we'll start with the upbeat here. Fantastic. So we always start each week with our kind of Let's talk Irrigation segment. And they're looking at weather conditions over the last couple of weeks and then maybe perhaps a little bit of an outlook there as well, and so on. If we look at the weather over the last seven days and certain parts of Michigan, especially mid Michigan, really get inundated with rainfall. We've had some 5 and 6 inch totals certainly in parts of of Lansing area, as well as parts of Southeast Michigan. Probably not quite as heavy and totals, but still significant rain. And so we're kind of back to pretty good soil moisture levels. Portions of the Southwest were certainly lower than that, but we had our fair share of rain as well and in heavy wind events and in all kinds of good stuff going on. So the forecast, for the weather of the last couple of days kind of been a welcome relief to some of the storms that we ended up seeing last week. On the evapotranspiration front, we look at kind of what's going on over the last seven days in terms of that and certainly we had a little bit of cooler weather, cloudy weather in there. And so we have evapotranspiration rates or reference of evapotranspiration rates above an inch to an inch and a  tenth over the, over the course of the last seven days. In that in that course when we get hot, dry conditions, windy conditions, we can be up in the one and three tenths range is something that you can see out in, Western and  Northern Illinois. But we've been able to stay a little bit below that, which helps reduce crop water usage in there as well. Remember again that when we use this reference ET number and then we have to multiply by a crop coefficient to be able to estimate crop water usage rates. So we know that when corn  gets above that Essentially tasseling stage. We look at about a crop coefficient of about 1.2. And then you can look at actual crop evapotranspiration of about 1.3 inches per week. And then once we get to full dent on corn would be dropped down to about that one case sub c. And the plants start to use less water for sure. And then we stop and reduce that to about 1.1 inches per week. So that's pretty common for soybeans. You know, it's usually kind of, we're really pushing the throttle up to fall once beans get to the R3 growth stage right down through the final coloring in there. And the reality for that is because we have a tremendous amount of water in one, all of those nutrients going into the beans for sizing. And so that's why we really, really step up  both our crop coefficient in there for water usage. And then also we don't want to let the plants, the soil moisture to fall below 60, 60% of the potential holding capacity up in the upper root zone and that as well. So those are important things to do well as corn matures then we had a lot of early planted corn this year. We have corn that is an advance of where it would normally be. So as it gets into that initial stage will start to drop off when our water usage warms and we'll pick that up and carry that through to the soybean crops right down through coloration in there as well.  I'm going to hand the program over to Dr. Yungsuk Don and he's going to talk a little bit about crop water efficiency. Using moisture sensors to make sure that we were on track with irrigation. So Dr. Yungsuk take it away. Here we are. Thank you Bruce. Can you see my screen? Yes. Okay. Good. All right. So before I start, I want to just remind you that those of who you are for the first time Irrigation webinar series, we've been recording and we've been posting all the videos to the Irrigation website. So we'll put the link in the chat later. Once you go to this website, you can go, you can click the irrigation webinar series on the top or under click link. And it will go to this web page on the right here. And you can play all the videos, all the talks that we did last month. And so you can check the videos you're  interested in. So Today I'm going to briefly talk about, since we have really great speaker, a report hearing, talks from Dr. Ron Gordy's and Dr. Tom Hernandez and Nikki. So I will do a very brief presentation how we can improve water use efficiency using the sensor technology. So the soil moisture sensor, it has been used in irrigation research and has been used to understand how water flowing soil and or basically a soil moisture sensor estimate and measure how much moisture in the soil. And by knowing this moisture amount in soil, we can calculate how much water we could apply it to the soil. So just talk about one common sensor which is watermark. This is solid state electrical resistance sensing device. This watermark sensor read the resistance change as the soil tension change. So it's basically to measure soil tension which depends on the soil moisture contents. So the right bottom graph is the data we collect using this watermark sensor. The x-axis is date and the y-axis is soil metric sensor. So as the number goes up, as number increase, it means the soil is dry. And over time, and we see there's a big drop, means there was a rainfall or irrigation. And that over time it dries out and then drops. So that's this example of this watermark sensor data you can use. You can read the sensor values using data logger or handheld reading tools. It's available. The data logger, It can record the values every half an hour or every hour or so. And you can also use a handheld reading tool which is portable. So you can take this tool to the sensor and read  what the value is outputting from sensors. So briefly go over how we use this watermark sensors data to determine how much water we could apply to the soil. So this is just the exempt for tomato. Let's assume tomato root growth 20-40 inch. And this is loamy sand soil. And I had three soil moisture watermark sensors. So I basically distributed evenly throughout the soil profile. So I put one in the four-inch, second at twelve and third, third 1 at, on 20th step. So let's say that the first one, the shadow one, read 50 kiloPascal. The second read 30 kilopascal, and the third one read 30 kilopascals. So there is a table provided by University of Nebraska Extension. They have table that shows how much soil water deficit and and what is the meaning of each value from sensors? So what we need to do is that we know this low mid stance. So let's go to the loamy sand in the table and go to 50 kiloPascal. And that's .041. So we take the number and multiply it by eight. So where do I get the 8? Which is representing the four inch depth sensors. So the sporting to depth sensor represents from 0 to eight inch. There's 12 inch depth sensor represents from 12 to 16 inch, the 20th, that represents from 20 - 24, I mean this example, but if you have different sensors, two or five sensors, this number may change. But after you multiply this number times the soil depth that represents for, for each soil. Sensors than this, how much do you get, How much water depleted within this zone. So once you add the whole profile and you get how much water is depleted in this whole soil profile within the 24 inch depth. And you can apply this point .85 inch to  this tomato plant. Or we typically recommend about 80% of this amount because we like to have some rooms and capacity to capture the predict rainfall. So we have to keep in mind potential rainfall. Another type of sensors we will talk about is frequency domain refracts microsensors. These sensor measured the soil water content using the dielectric property of the soil, which are highly dependent moisture contents. So these are just the example of the sensor by 10 or 12 per meter group. And the drain job I saw there is couple in Southwest Michigan that have been using this sensors and CS616 and SoilVUE10. I know this has been used by in by radio station. So these are just examples of the frequency domain refresh metric sensor. Is this sensor requiring a little different calculation? Let's say we have same setup. We install the sensor at 40 inch, 12 inch and one inch. This read by much water contents so remains with a known volume, how much moisture there. So we can calculate that it represents zone for the shallow, medium and the lower one times the volume water content is for each zone to get how much water is available  in this profile. So once you add a, B, C joins here and you get two points, your aid, which is a bellwether for the crop in this root zone. What we need to do is to be able to find out what's the maximum water holding capacity in the root zone. So in the table here, It gives you a general number for the capacity for each soil type. This example, we assume this is loamy sand, so loamy says 12 percent. So we take the 12 percent times the soil profile, your eight inch for a minute, the eight inch for B and C. Once you add all these numbers, that will give you what's the maximum water according, pass the in the root zone. So that's the maximum water that soil can hold after drainage. So the difference between these two, this maximum water-holding capacity and the current over wire. In the root zone is the how much water you could apply, you could apply to spill. Same gain at 80% of this amount. Point a is what we recommend at about your seven-tenths and maybe another seven inch. Every application is probably real recommender. I briefly talk about our work That our team has been working on this local more sensors, which has low cost real time sensor monitoring system. So we liked it, provides some irrigation management technology to the producers. So people will use more sensor technology. Over the years, we found that the 10 barrier is cost because the commercial system, commercial sensor system or it or not, or that chips are inexpensive, so we wanted to provide some low cost sensor. The second barrier we found that the data we get from irrigation systems  So there is some equation we have to apply that I explained earlier, kinda went through, but we have to do that in order to calculate how much water we could apply it to the soil. So data interpretation is not there. So that's why we wanted to provide some technology, it has hardware which is censored unit, also software, which I'm going to talk about next couple slides. But this year we installed the close to 80 stations in the soybean corn, bean, potato, and tomato. So I'm sure this can be used in the summer fruits and the tree fruit industry. But I want to share this website. So this current website that I've been sharing with one of the registers. And he's using this data to make to make his irrigation decision. We have map where the sensor located. We have the gauge to tell you what the open water percentage at the field. And we also provide the recommended irrigation amounts. So this is how much water you're the producer could apply to the feel with temperature. And the bottom graph shows what the soil water content changes over time. So in this case, we had re-install the sensors at 6, 18, and 30 inch depths. We can also send an email or a text message about when it's reaching to some threshold. If you'd like to know when you're making a decision based on 50 percent or capacity or abrupt or over water. We can send an email or a text message to the users. Also be working on monitoring the pressure, water pressure. This one we have been meeting at the center pressure system. The pressure is important. I mean, the pressure data can tell you whether irrigation is enough, but it can also tell you whether you are maintaining pressure. So if it's pressure is now within the specification, there might be something going on so that can tell you to check your pumping systems and so on. Well lastly, I want to mention we've been working on a the LOCOMOS app, which I know we have website. I still tell you that how much you could apply to the fill. But we want to make more steps forward to provide a more easy interfaced, something like an  App, mobile app. I know a lot of producers prefer using the app and website. So this is what we are working on so we hope to provide some prototype end of this year and maybe get some feedback. Here's some extension bulletins about how we use the sensor data to make decisions when to irrigate and how much you to irrigate. So please check our website and also MSU Extension Irrigation website. If you're interested in using sensor technology for your irrigation management, please e-mail me with your contact information, will be happy to help you with that. So with that, the next like to introduce Dr. Ron Goldy.   MSU vegetable educator. And Dr. Goldy has a lot of experience with irrigated vegetable crops. And he's kinda talk about irrigating fresh market-based over for top quality. So okay, thank you Youngsuk. I invite any questions that you might have as we go through here will be handled by Bruce or somebody else to take and pass them out to me. A couple things that I want to mention right away and my working with irrigators for the past 20 plus years is that my experience is that most irrigators tend to over irrigate, that they have the system ends and they use it and they use it to well, as a result of that, not only you wasting water and the expense of putting that while you're out there, but you're also wasting any nutrients that are going to be leached soils, especially nitrogen. I first started working with irrigators. I actually did a study where I took soil samples at 1, 2, 3 feet at the beginning of the season and at the end of the season, again took soil samples at 1, 2, and 3 feet. And I proved to one grower that they actually were pushing 30 pounds of nitrogen down to the three foot level, which is beyond most root zones for body or vegetable crops, for some of your field crops is not very well your vegetable crops, this posterior roots in most of your crops, you than your treat tree fruit are going to be the top 24 inches. And so don't over irrigate. Again. When I first started, I had one girl that was operating there, drip irrigation system for eight hours at a time. And I have one guy that was also operating 24 hours. So they almost had on all the time because he was afraid this pump point out, then you'd have time to fix it. Well, the problem with that is that he was irrigating sandy soil and you cannot bank water in sand. You can store some water in clay soils, but in sandy soils, it just goes right through the soil. You just can't store anything in that soil. Which brings me to the other point that I want to make. And that is that as you irrigate you most of the time in your mind, you're thinking that I'm irrigating the crop. But in actuality, you're irrigating the soil and then the crop will pick up the water out of that, so on. So when you irrigate, you've got to have your soil type in mind. And you have to understand how that soil type reacts to water. When you get your soil tests back, you're going to have a CEC number or the crop exchange coefficient, KX, because in exchange coefficient on there, that is your best indicator of what your soil is like. Sandy soils are going to be no five or less. Loamy soils would be five to ten. Clay soils could be up to around 15 to 20. Twenty-five, organic soils, muck soils, that could be a 100 plus. And what that number tells you is how well that soil hangs on to anything you put on it. Whether it's water, herbicides, nutrients. That's why some of your herbicides, some of them are just flat out, say, do not use on organic soils. And the reason that is is because that organic soil just binds that herbicides so tight that it doesn't really react. It's not free to react to the weeds as they germinate. So paying attention to that CEC numbers, really important when you irrigate. If you have a low CEC number, what that tells you you want to do is that you want to irrigate quickly, but not very long. By here again quickly. What happens is that water goes out and then down. If you irrigate slow, then you're creating just a real tiny band of water that will where your roots can grow. Now what's, once the plants find water? That's the nice thing about water. Is it about plants? Is that when they find water, that's where the roots will grow, can put a few irrigate. Really slow I sandy soil than that area that you can work with is not very wide, that tends to go out and then go down so that your cone of irrigation is a little bit wide. If you have heavier into clay soils, you want to irrigate very slowly. But for a long time, you want to irrigate slowly is because you don't want the water to spread way out. You want it to go down where the roots are and you don't want to spread two feet or more away from your plant, but you're getting it fast. And so you want to irrigate slowed. So you can do with the beauty of drip irrigation is you can design your system with just emitter flows. You can get a high flow and low flow. Tape emitters site and space out the emitters. So it's a much more flexible system when it comes to how fast water can go out. So those are really the two things that I've learned are the 20 plus years I've worked with irrigators is again, number one. Do they irrigate too much? Number two is they don't irrigate with your soil type in mind. Any questions or anything come to your mind, that you want to ask on that or any comments around it and to get off mute. So I think that's probably right it is. I'm looking at the way people design systems, is that they either don't think you're exactly right. They don't have a good feel for what the soils actually able to either contributor whole. And so a lot of times we can get into trouble there pretty easily. And the other thing is on those light soils is that the more you push water, especially the more likely you are to have nitrogen move in. And unless  you're adding it all the time with irrigation, you're likely to have it move and get beyond the, the shallow root zones and some vegetables in their tubes, you have to be careful about that. And that's what happens lots of times that a growers will say that I need to put on length 250,000 pounds of nitrogen. And that's because they're rinsing half of it away. If they would just be more judicial in how they put out their water than that. You've got to remember wherever water goes from nutrients scope. And so if you're putting out a lot of water you're pushing and the nutrients down below the root zone. And especially if you're in a high water table area, seasonably high water to a lot of our vegetables are grown in fights that come December, January, February. That water table is your foot below the ground. And so it's interfacing with any nitrogen that you put into that ground that their plants to use and that can get into your groundwater. So you gotta be careful. I didn't know the other thing that you've done throughout your careers. You've looked at helping folks schedule irrigation and look at some moisture sensor technology to be able to help gauge when things are right or when to turn things on or off key. I know you talked a little bit about some of those technologies. What's been your experience? I mean, what have you used in your career? I gotta, I want to share my screen with you here and show you the system that I have. Okay. Can you see that Bruce? Yes. Looks good. Okay. What this is, this is Slightly different system than what Yunsuk showed. And this is a system that measures the electrical capacitance of the soil. And what it does is I install PVC tube at the beginning of the season. And then I have a probe and down that PVC tube, that probe sends out an electrical signal into the soil. And then it measures the bounce back of that signal. And that signal bounced back varies with how much moisture is in the soil. And so what you see here is that you have ten centimeters, 20, 30, 40, and so on. That's basically 48, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28. So sun goes down really deep. This is a 32 inch one. This is actually at a site here at the research station. We have very sandy soil here. And saw this series of columns here are weekly readings at the four-inch level. This one is weekly readings at eight, weekly readings at 30. And here's my, over here on the very left-hand column are the days that we read this. And these are the numbers. If I were to move this, I can do that. Now. Let me move it. Can monitor that. The numbers here are just the graphs, numbers for this graph. Couple things I want to show here, this, this is actually an orchard setting. And this is where let me pick this level here. This is for 8, this is 12 inches. Okay. This is at the beginning of the season. This was 511. Okay. These are weekly readings. The next reading is at 518. And so I I told the guys, I said it's starting to dry out. You better get your irrigation going and get it out. And so they turn it on the next week, it was getting drier. I said something's not right here guys. You need to go out and check your irrigation system. And so they did. And so next week got even drier. And you can see all this patterns all the way through here. And so I finally, you know, and this blue line here, I said, Look guys, there's something wrong here. You've got to go out and figure it out. And so what they were doing in these situations here is that they were looking at the ends of the line. This is on a slight slope. And I had my tube at the at the height of the slope, at the higher end of the slope. They were checking the drip drip lines at bottom of the slope and they were seeing water coming out that your plants. But what they didn't do is check the top. And so this gives your lead, lead and it gives me a lead into this, some maintenance that goes on with these irrigation system. Just can't walk away and expect it to work full season. And what has happened is that the filter on this have gotten up to the point where I was letting some water through, but not enough to fill up the whole line all the way up to the top, highest elevation. And so finally they realize that. And so here you can see on this day here on 6-14, they finally figured out that I was wrong. They clean the filter. And then you can see where it jumped up. The green column here on all of them jumped way out. And so they finally got it figured out and got it correct. This this brown column here was a rain event as was this kind of peach colored with a rain event. And so it also measures or rain events as long as your irrigation. Now this is a very sandy soil and I like to keep sand at around 50. If this is a clay soil, it would be up around 25 to 30 mark. But if you're getting sand much more than 15, then that's when you run the risk of leaching nutrients down through the profile. And the 15 is like a bio-metric water content than correct? Yeah. So I could show you this. Here. We have very dry spring. And so it was kind of odd to have a dry spring, especially concerning the last five or six has been very wet. So the point here is that there's maintenance involved with these systems. He just, like I said, you can't turn around and walk away. You can automate them to a fair extent, where they come on automatically. Either with a timer or you get a soil sensor similar to what Yunsuk was using, where you can connect that soil sensor up to a timer on a timer but a solenoid, have it kick on. But again, you just can't always trust that you've got to have some rural contact with what's going to be optimum. So on it is bringing up a pretty good point. No, you live tensor using the raised bed systems in there. We don't have perfectly level field and every return that we're trying to produce vegetables or, or anything under drip, I guess in that process. So how is there's some special way to try to rule about? Say you're designing those systems to be able to make sure that they have adequate moisture annual if there's enough volume, usually you can get that water to the end of the tube. But any other considerations that you would suggest for those fields that have some slope, that they do make pressure compensating emitters. Or if you're a tree fruit situation, the zoom button, things that you can put into the hard line that is either laying on the ground or suspended, that it's pressure compensating. And a lot of orchard sites are quite hilly and so you're going to have to use those pressure compensating emitters. And as far as I know, there's only one pressure compensating. But if you're on a slope, then you want to use that compensating tape. But in this case, I showed you what the slope wasn't enough that you needed, that the situation was you need to clean the filter out. And so that's another thing to bring up with drip irrigation is that even groundwater needs to be filtered because you're going to have less sand particles that might be sucked up by your well, especially if you're using surface water or whether it's a pond or a river or stream or something, you're going to suck up all kinds of things that you're going to have to filter. Now the size of your shelter depends on the size of your field. If you have a large field and you're going to have a larger sand filter than this screen filter ratio is smaller, shield or a disk filter for smaller, but you can have 20 plus acres. You're going to be in a sand filter situation. How many guys are using fertigation through their drip lines are, and most of those putting fertilizer on or just up from the soil. And the third, are they putting fertilizer around through there? And what sort of challenges to that I had varies quite a bit. I have growers that all of that goes down through the drip. A little pricey that way. What typically I suggest people do is to put on all year your P and K and calcium, magnesium, she needed put that on as a pre-planned dry broadcast just because that's the least expensive way to do it. You can also put out a third of your nitrogen that way. And then what I typically do is put the rest of the nitrogen, nitrogen two-thirds through the drip. How you do that varies with the crop. Peppers. You want to have about 75% of your nitrogen on that pepper field prior to fruit set. Because what she wanted and peppers is large plants. You've got to push that plants along. Because once that plant sets fruit, it's hard to get it to grow unless it's big. I, probably all of us have seen pepper plants look like pencils, lists or peppers and a few leaves on them. And that's the worst-case scenario because once that little tiny pepper plant puts on a fruit, all that energy that it has is going to go to sizing that fruits. And so you won't have any larger plant. See you in about 75 percent of your nitrogen and peppers prior to that fresh fruit set. Other things like vine crops and tomatoes, you want to kind of meter that out through the season. Because if you put all that stuff right up front, you're just going to create a huge plant because tomatoes and vine crops are very good at turning nitrogen and deletes. Peppers are a little bit better at turning into fruit. So you and I spent a lot of time looking at diseases and insect issues in there with the water. So advantages of using the triple versus use no red on the vegetable side. Oh well, certainly with all overhead gets you wet leaves on time and I see a lot of people misusing overhead. They will irrigate at night. And that's the worst thing you can do. Vegetable growers irrigating their crops sets that seven o'clock at night as I have to bite my tongue and not go over and tell him not to do that. But what you're doing is you're allowing that plant to stay wet from seven o'clock at night till probably ten o'clock the next morning. And that's 15 hours for weeding period. And that's, that's more than enough to get those to germinate and start to infect your plan, and so on. Irrigate your head at night. Beauty of drip irrigation is that you can irrigate while people are in the field, harvesting or doing whatever, not interfering with other activities. Again, if you over irrigate some situations, you can make phytophthora worse by having that, that saturated soil on time. You don't want saturated soil and you want moist soil with John saturated wet soil. Because that again, is a breeding ground for diseases. Some of the other thing for cilium and a lot of our vegetable crops are susceptible to. So we've talked a little bit more about technology in terms of like moisture sensing things. Where else's technology getting used in production? I guess maybe I'm just outside of irrigation. Is there anything that we're that you've seen that were, were really stepping up. Are there any opportunities to use more technology to get better nation to make decisions? While irrigation? Certainly as one, getting more, more into the drones situation in terms of looking for hotspots, problems and you feel, you know, it's amazing what you can see just from a general picture of a field that is just been worked and then has been just planted two months into planting. And you can see spots in the field where I need to do something there and you put some extra tiling in that field. There's a problem going on there that I need to look at. And actually when the crop is out there and you've got to say if it's watermelons and you've got a solid cannot be a watermelon leech. You can send that drawn over those watermelon. You can see the hotspots. Our mites have come in, and watermelons terribly susceptible to bites. And so you can make sure that you tag those hotspots and control them before in my ticket out of control? Yeah. It's interesting when you think about all the more specific ways we're trying to look at things that have those aerial pictures can really help a lot terms. Oh yeah. Yeah, it's, it's amazing. Even an established orchards or when you, once you get that, that aerial photo of somebody, you see where the trees are dead. And then you sing all why the trees dying there. And you go out and look and you find out that there may be a clay hard there that you didn't know about. And so I tells you don't plant there anymore. You're not going to be very economic there. And Bruce, are there any lasting one last question or something because I'm getting close to using up my time. Okay. Well, I guess the only one thing I would say just done this is I think about this year we started drops or eye and we put those beds in early on that and as we got into these heavy rains like we are more often now, how it helps you guys think about ln of fields to, to avoid, seems like everybody's favorite pastime up here has been on those beds, is pushing things back together, gotten them apart and make it to the irrigation life. This are repaired so that you get water through those washed out. How is there anything that you can think of or that that help can help reduce some of those things? Well, no plants there. I've  been through growers fields where every year I share a two-inch thunderstorm, the shields on the water and and they've planted it. And you're going to tell me so it happens every year to you. Why do you even bother to plant them? And so finally, they stop planting there. Yeah, it's one of those things where, you know, as an extension educator, how balls do you want to be? You know, how, how, how much should I risk offending somebody by telling them what they should or shouldn't do. But it depends on their relationship that you have for the person I've told them to select ion implanter, I give that area feel left because you don't get anything out there anyway. And so they now it depends on if they have a good relationship, then they will listen to you. That can answer your question. Yeah, I think so. The only thing I was wondering if like covers in-between those rows are practical or if it was held, companies, grass cover or something. Now many people do that and mostly because it interferes with harvesting and you're going to have people walking up and down those rows and you want them to get in and out as quickly as they can because you're paying by the piece. Why do as quickly as they can to say, you know, I interference what they're doing. One question I see there's is how can they reach me? Go ahead and just use my email. That's the best way. I haven't said that I'm actually partially retired. But use my email. Thanks, Betsy. Perfect. Well around and we appreciate you coming in talking about that and sharing information. And I know we're just touching the tip of the iceberg when it comes to stuff that you know about irrigation, that we're going to have to struggle to replace. That someday. That's it. Everybody can be replaced. So if you're through with me verse, I'm going to sign off. Is that okay? Yeah, that sounds good. If we can we'll go to we'll see. Wow, Nikki is available here. She's I think she is, so we'll go ahead and see if I'm right next door. I saw you walk past the window so I find it very okay. Fantastic place or on, okay,  Well as our educator that works with IPM and fruit crops up in the Northwest station, up in the Traverse City area, actually just a little bit west of there. And maybe we're going to have her talk a little bit about a research project. And she did that, looked at sizing tree fruit, specifically cherries. I think Nick was triple irrigation irrigation, so I'll turn it over. Thank you. Thank you Bruce, some slides here. Can you see him? Yeah. It looks good. Excellent. Yes. So thank you so much for having me. I'm sorry for you guys. Was worried I wasn't going to show up. I have the pleasure of being in Southwest Michigan today and yesterday for tree shrew tree fruit team meeting, which is fun because we haven't seen each other in real life and as you guys know quite some time, so it's been a real pleasure to look at what's going on in for cropping systems here in Southwest Michigan. So Bruce estimated to touch on a little bit on what we've been doing with irrigation and cherry systems. So I am from the Trevor city areas, Bruce said is so our soils are extremely sandy up north, so we like to call them light. But we have some jokes about sand. We do have some packets of clay, but I would say for the most part, we have a lot of really light soils. So and I say that because that's where we grow the majority, purchasing the state and a lot of the sweet cherries in the state. And they really grow well there because cherries don't like to have what we call wet feet. So they get a disease or root rot disease called phytophthora. And so that's why we plan a really heavy plantings up north in that kinda Northwest region because we grow cherries well, because those light soils. So we haven't been traditionally irrigators, quite frankly in the Northwest because those cherries don't like wet. And we've had ample rainfall in most situations. Irrigations being kind of new to us in Cherry systems. However, these data are a little bit on the older side and we've been playing around and doing more work in irrigations of high density systems. So our growers are transitioning to higher density apples. So apples that are grown very close together,  All of those take subsystems are irrigation is a must. So in some of our older tertiary systems, they're grown on a more of a standard group. Irrigation really hasn't been needed. So, and we'll move more into these more modern horticultural systems. I see that irrigation is becoming more and more critical for our growers that are growing on light soils. So these data are something that we put together a few years ago. And we were really the goal was to determine the optimal system for establishing a standard tertiary planting. So Bruce, I'm assuming there's not a lot of tree fruit folks on. So a rootstock is the bottom half of the tree and then the top half is grafted to the cyan. So Montmorency tart cherry that we grow in Michigan. We have about 35 thousand acres in the state. And then that bottom half that my halo rootstock grows a traditional system. So the canopies are big, the trees get large and they have to be physically large enough to actually shake the tree so we mechanically harvest. So it's a very unique system, very unique system to Michigan. And so the trees are planted 20 by 16. So that's kind of old school. Were planning things much closer together. Most of our apples are two by ten now, but our old school systems are still 20 by 16 feet apart. We had 15 trees and each of these treatments. And we were really interested, even in this older system, could irrigation improve that? So is it worth it for growers to invest in that money in the system, even if they're not going to get some of those return that we're getting on those higher density systems. So we are interested in yields. Could we get yields earlier? What does a fruit quality look like? And then that tree and canopy size, can we fill that space between the wide spacing so that their planet apart? So these are things that we were interested a few years ago. So we looked at Kenneth, different irrigation systems that were available. So like I said, most of our tertiaries in Northwest machine are not irrigated. I would say that it's changing with climate change. So we've had more rainfall this summer than probably Jeff Andreessen told me yesterday that maybe Northwest Michigan has had more rainfall, might be a 100 year event. Some of those rain totals. So we were interested in looking at different types of irrigation systems. So single RAM tubing, which is pretty straightforward, your RAM. We had 24 inches between emitters. Then we put two lines of that down each side of the cherries in a row. That trickle is what most scholars had traditionally done if they'd put irrigation in, which would be one singer, single emitter per tree. And then we have a lot of new stuff that's coming out of primarily Israel micro sprinklers, which is very common in when they grow tree fruit in the West Coast, so Washington State. And so they're using a lot of these micro sprinklers in the row versus cross rho. And then of course we had the control. So we establish just black back in 2011. Again, these are the same systems, but I'll just go through these triple meters would put out one gallon of water per hour. The double ram would be about 0.5 gallons per hours every 24 inches times two. So remember that double row, the single RAM, it will be the same thing but only a single line. And then we had these micro sprinklers that basically when in rows. And then we had the net film micro sprinklers that went I'm sorry. The Nelson when in row Yeah, I'm sorry. In the net FM ways on basically covered more than one row. So you can see there's a tremendous, tremendous, but there's definitely some variation. So those metaphase micro sprinklers put out ton of water compared to those other ones. And so we ran these systems Monday through Friday for four hours. A piece. That just gives you a look. This is at our research station up and Traverse city. So this is the single line, double-blind, just like it says, two lines on either side of the tree. This is the single emitters, so just drips out that emitter at one gallon per hour. And then we had these different types of sprinkler heads that covered basically this is the end row and then this was the across row. And again, these are very common. These micro sprinklers in the West Coast, but not used very often in Michigan systems for tree fruits. And then obviously this US-centric detect there's no obviously irrigation matter at all. So these data are a little busy, so I apologize for this, but so all of these are different years. And so trunk diameter is really important to us in tree fruit systems because especially tertiaries, your trunk has to physically get big enough so we can actually clamp on and shake it for mechanical harvesting purposes. So trickle irrigation is that single emitter that doubles single RAM, the crossroad micro sprinklers in the enroll. All these are fairly similar in terms of statistical differences. We do see a slight increase in 2016 where the trunk diameter is smaller than those other as irrigation systems. And then again, the untreated check is probably similar to that trickle irrigation. And so we have some other data that need to be analyzed that looks at the distribution of water once it gets put down. So in that drink, that trickle irrigation with that one single head. It makes kinda just a tiny skinny line. And then we never have the organic matter for soil hold the moisture holding capacity, or we can make that umbrella to bring it up. So it just continues to trickle in that one single line down through the sand. So that's why that system may not be working for us where it may work with heavier soils where it finally, once it builds up and it hits that water table, you get that umbrella that forms with the water. And we don't really see that in our sandy soils. So this system right here, this is the canopy size that we collected in 2016. So this was after five years of look at these water systems. So crossroad sprinklers, single RAM in row sprinkles double ram. And so, I'm sorry, these error bars are so huge, but that's very common with tart cherries. We have tremendous variability in three sizes, often and even more so with yields. But I guess the notable thing here is these cross those single RAM in row micro sprinkles double ram are all better than using that trickle tape irrigation with that single image. And then the untreated check. So we measure the canopy height, depth in width, and that's how we come up with that canopy size there. And then this is yields per tree. So this is 2016. This is the first yield that we collected. So you can see again, all three of the, or all four of these systems are somewhat similar. We get higher yields, but the in row sprinklers probably not statistically significant, but close. But again, those are much better than using that, just that one single emitter or doing nothing at all. So you could see there may be a benefit for a grower to invest in an irrigation system that is better than doing nothing at all and relying on just natural rainfall. And then we also did some measurements where we actually looked at fruit quality. We rarely see differences in Cherry weights. I do see differences and cherry weights if we get excessive rainfalls before we harvest fruit sizes and we see waits there. But again, these irrigation systems made no difference in fruit weight. But here's what I thought was really interesting about our data. So Brix is the amount of natural sugars that develops in the fruit. And we have these meters that actually can measure that Brix level or that amount of sugar when we had that excess water. So remember that was 5.2 gallons per hour compared to about a half to a single gallon per hour. You can see that the brix levels or sugar levels drops off tremendously in those enroll micro sprinklers. So they're getting a lot more water in those systems. And obviously that is not a system that we want. Growers usually don't get graded on Brix, but if your Brix or two or 2.5 points below others, other irrigation systems, it is not a system that we want. Even in tart cherries, they get processed in a lot of sugars get added back to those products and products. And then the average pull force. So we always measure pull force in tart cherries. And pull force is the amount of energy it takes to pull or release the fruit from the stem. So when we mechanically harvest that fruit of sizes from the stand, easier or harder. And we always measure pulled for us because growers don't want to be shaken the heck out of the tree because it does damage to the tree. So this is not a typical measurement for a lot of different systems, but we always measured pull, force and tertiary just because we want that fruit to come off cleanly and that tear or rip the Cherry as it sizes from that stem. But again, not much difference is again, that trickle irrigation may hold a little bit more tightly, which makes sense because that tree is not getting the water as it is, but those other systems. But the data aren't significant here either. So basically the trunk diameter, canopy size and yields were impacted with single and double RAM and both and both micro sprinkler systems. Compared with that single emitter and with the untreated check, we had no impact on fruit weights. The fruit bricks with significant lower and they enroll micro sprinklers in. My question is, is that too much water? Are we going to end up getting lower-quality fruit? And then there was no impact on pull force. So where we're going with this project? Dr. Black was a colleague of ours that has passed away at MSU, but we were looking at this in terms of economics. So if I can't water culturally pull out the details are that my new show up for these different systems. Let's look at an Economics. So it makes sense for a grower to invest in. So we really need more data on how much it costs to install, how much it costs to maintain those different irrigation systems. Even just logically thinking those micro sprinklers that are sticking up under the tree. If you're running a shaker or a weed spray boom or all those things, how many times are you going to hit those? Have to repair those. So these are things that I think we need to be looking at. And so we had no real differences in yields but those RAM treatments, so the micro sprinklers. So I think the recommendation really needs to come from those horticultural goals and farm economics. So what makes sense for the grower in terms of profitability in the end. So my, Without doing those in-depth economics, I would say the double line a ram is probably the most optimal system based on installation, maintenance cost, maintenance cost to install and the benefits and the orchard system. So we have a lot more work to do an irrigation. Like I said, I've just been starting to dabble in it a little bit here. But it was fun to dig out these a little bit older data and to share him with you guys today. So Bruce, Thanks, Nikki we will move things to the Q and A or the chat question. You have questions for Nikki, please enter them into the chat and then we'll have our standby for a little bit in there. Next, I would like to switch over to Tom Fernandez who feels with ornamental or irrigation or animal production. And so Tom, if you were there, if you can share your screen, we'd be appreciated. Okay. Yes. Good afternoon.  Okay. I am calling in from my phone so hopefully this is coming through clearly. Can everybody hear me? Yeah, we can hear a little it's a little delayed but not too bad. It's gotten a little more delay. Now. What I'm going to do is call in. And then now, but I'll use I'll use my screen as well. So yeah, that's fine. Let me know if we can not put your put your PowerPoint up here, x2 or x2. Okay, that's good feedback loop down. So maybe you get a shutdown sound off on your computer. Suggestions, Betsy, it sounds like he's got his microphone on his computer and dialed in. Okay. Yeah. Maybe your microphone on your computer. You might want to turn the volume down on your computer machine as well because maybe picking up your fault. If you're listening to us through the phone, turn the volume down on your computer so we're not coming through both ways. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes. I do have the phone. I mean, the computer unit, both the pan and the speakers. Okay. Let me go ahead and share the screen. All right. Cool. I'm going to be talking about irrigating container grown, nursery crops. Grown. Okay. She had just crashed on the on the computer. It's really connecting. But anyway, field go to nursery crops. Irrigation is fairly similar to tree crops or even some of the vegetable production where like crypto systems are, overheads are sprayed taken the soil is the medium that's holding the water. In our kitchen container production systems, we're using a potting mix or containers substrate that is primarily organic, sometimes with the 100 percent organic material. And and can actually can be used sometimes in our containers, substrates, and it's considered a fine particle. That's how course container subtree. It's basically chunks of bark. Pine wood bark is our primary container substrate. The irrigation systems that we use depend mainly on container size. So for smaller container side was from about one to maybe ten gallon range. Irrigation is still done primary method of irrigation. And that's because you can have anywhere from ten to 25 thousand plants per acre. And if you think about applying that many are putting that many individual emitters into pot. It's just daunting, daunting approach to irrigate, right? There'll be a lot of getting to playing around. Think of walking through audits, get a tube and tripping over it, having to take it out when you hardest part from your crop. And then what do you do with the emitters that are not being used? So overhead used for for the smaller containers, larger container is above 10 gallons or 10 gallons up. They'll use either drip emitters or space. They can, There's drip emitters. I typically do not recommend those for our nursery crops. Because what we end up doing on a daily basis, irrigating. I'm trying to get in that Greek connected on to the the Zoom meeting. Okay. Why don't we get a larger containers. So ten gallon containers and above will go with grip type systems or scrape take systems. Again, I typically suggest our great, great. Because you can see the water coming out. You can't do that in irrigation. And in nursery crops, we irrigate everyday because of the substrate. They're very coarse, the water run through them very quickly. And then a small root zone. So the client will take up the water very quickly as well. So water is moving through the system very rapidly. So we irrigate on a daily basis, a couple of days without irrigation and you'll have a field full of dead plant. So trying to see what emitters are still running in that type of operation is very difficult to build into your 13 plants will bring her dying. So drip emitters are more difficult to scrape. You can drive by on a TV and you can see several rows in. And you'd be able to see whether you're getting irrigation or not. Okay? Some other things that are important are the substrate, physical properties, water availability. Of course. We need to determine how much is too much water to fight. How much is enough? And I'm not going to talk about system side, Python application, I think Ron, covering, covering that to some extent. We'll talk a little bit about irrigation return, flow volume. So that is how much of your irrigation water returns are millions your operation and goes back into the bigger environment. And then what type of contaminants might be moving. And that's becoming more and more important. So when we look at the substrate available water, basically container capacity, how much water is available to the plant. So that maximum amount that you'll fascinating, right? Maximum amount a water. He would come back on the maximum amount of water available in the pot after gravitational drainage. Okay. And for nursery crops, very high, 35 to 60 percent depending on what's in your substrate. Unavailable water's bad, but it's too tightly bound so it can't be picked up by the plant. And then the available water, the amount that's available to the walk to the plant extraction. Now, that doesn't mean it easily available. It can still took plants go we'll even though there's available water, so we don't want to get to the point running into that that lower part of the available water. We want to keep it in the upper range. And then readily available water and the amount of water that a plant can easily extract. Okay? And that's usually between 25 and 35 percent of the water in the container. I get to this is when plant, easily available water has been taken up. The plants that started the world, but they're there, they can still recover from it. And then we have permanent wilting point because that's when you're below the available water. And plants are not going to recover from any bilinear quite irrigation. So how do we determine painter happening? It's pretty easy. We are getting a water's dripping out of the drain holes. Wait 30 to 45 minutes until water is no longer draining from Ukraine whole container capacity. Now you can measure that with a very center the book talked about. Or you can do it simply by weighing the pot. And then you can re-weigh it intervals afterwards to know how much water is lost over a time period. Now nursery irrigating on a daily basis would make sense to to to wait, really weigh them or where you measure them 24 hours later so you can determine how much water to reapply it. So even before you get to that point, you can calculate how much is too much water? No container. Let's take an example where we're using a substrate moisture content of 45 for container capacity. Available water at 25 percent. That means there's 20% of the water that could available for the plant to take up. Okay. So this is, this is the calculation of how much water is in different size pot. So unfortunately, we have container sizes that are not the same as the actual volume of the plant. So I've put both great ties and then the volume of water that can help. And then you can calculate based on the percent water content of the substrate, how much water. To apply. Overhead irrigation. And hopefully this table come up, you'll see it appear in air. You'll see that the numbers are really, really high and probably something that you should avoid. And that's because we're looking at available water, not on available water or I'm sorry, plant too easily available water. Or what we really want to irrigate with, which is a little bit higher than that, closer to container capacity. Okay? So if we look at a, maybe a better target of replacing 6% the readily available water. Because we don't want it to be all of the available water. And we want to keep it to what may be a day's worth of water would be this table when it comes up or. We'll, we'll make sure that brisket, a PDF of this. This table shows again the trade by the container, actual volume of the container, and then barriers of leaching fractions and how much water to apply to reach the leaching fractions. Now leaching crashed and then we'll container production is the concept where you want a certain amount of drainage so that your salt build up from the fertilizer that we use and we use told controlled release fertilizers for the most part. Okay. So again, here's the, the, the volume that you're really trying to replace air and how much water you would apply in gallons per acre or an acre inches to achieve a 0 leaching fraction, a 10 percent leaching fraction or 20 percent leaching fraction. Now the older recommendations were for 10 to 20 percent bleaching fraction. But that's mostly for greenhouse crops where they don't get rainfall. And most nurturing production in our area, country, we get rainfall, so it naturally leaches out the containers periodically. And I suggested growers consider going to a 0% leaching fraction because you're getting the rain coming to eventually periodically and leaching out. But there's some things you can do to monitor AC, electrical conductivity or your soluble salts. Basically, that's a pretty easy measurement. You can tell if you're building up songs and then you can add a higher rate of irrigation. Briefly, if you're in danger. We, we add a little bit more water based on our distribution uniformity. We're never a 100 percent at our distribution and uniformity, we're using really high when in this case. So that's nursery doing a great job there. Distribution uniformity. But we have to add more water than than what the system is. Wait it out because it's not graded at, because it's not being spread. You'd probably are the crop. Okay, and so that's why we, we divide that number by 80%. So all that is, is pretty came along, were kind of on again and off again with this. So how do you calculate all this stuff, right? Well, first ball here. Here's a couple of links where you can get to determine your irrigation system uniformity for sprinkler irrigation overhead type irrigation systems or micro irrigation systems dripper spray state. But to just skip over this, because this is a little, what I've done is I've basically made a spreadsheet as you can input your numbers. So it has your distribution informally, your desired leaching fraction of your pot sizes and the actual volume. And if you don't know that it can calculate it but higher diameter and height of your pot. And then it does all of those calculations for you. Okay, So with that, this is a link to this Excel file. So if you're interested in determining how much water based on the types of parameters, you can download and use it. And that works to kill them all if I don't know how I am on time, so just let me know when we're getting to the point where I need to stop it, how you can measure electrical conductivity or your content. What we do is we take a pot and you could add to that drip pan, the core a little bit of an art through the pot so that we can force the water that's currently in there. It takes a little bit. There's pH are, and to measure both pH and EC, so-called poetic mode. We're building up to what salt can also let us know that love or that we don't have enough fertilizer and their pH because our water is high alkalinity. Air getting it's frequently as we do in small volumes and pots. We can actually increase the pH of our substrate so that out of range where fertilizers are readily available. This next slide that you're going to see shows different types of sensors that we've already had a presentation about that. And we use, well, they weren't deca gone, only bought them. They're now called metric. Solve them. But you can use almost any of the moisture sensors that work and substrates, contaminants are usually not a good answer for that because the pores are so large and upgrades. But a lot of the key are in the dielectric centuries work well. So those would be the one to go with. And what we do is we look at. We take the center when we measure the soil substrate moisture at container capacity to what we've done is we've arrogated to get drainage coming out. We wait about a half-hour. We measure the water content and that's our container capacity. And then 24 hours later, we measure again. And that's depletion in a 24 hour period. From that, we can calculate knowing the container size, how much water we need to reapply to bring it up to container capacity. And there are now automated systems that will do that for you. We we'd use kind of a pantry or system. With that, we made our own programming for through the decade on any true Campbell Scientific systems. And it basically does that automatically measure container capacity metrics 24 hours later. Makes the calculation and seconds for less than a second and then apply turns on the irrigation to run for the appropriate amount of time. And so, anyway, this is what the data look like for, for a 24 hour period. Again, we measure right at the just after irrigation. That's our container capacity, maybe 24 hours later. And then the irrigation system makes the calculation, turned irrigation on. And you can see we've brought it right up to the same level is 24 hours ago, and then it dries down again. So some of the benefits of doing that. This is our experimental design. I'm not going to go through this that we looked at using daily water yet. How much water the plant is done the day. And then 75% of daily warriors in some of the treatment. So we're using depth is secure and mission as well.  The control is three-quarters of an inch daily and that kind of typical for this size container needed three gallon containers that color shoes or the amount of water applied per acre. So you see the control, et al, a same three quarters of an inch every time when you irrigate. And then you can see when we apply it a 100 percent of daily water yes. Or 75 percent of water use. We face substantial amounts of irrigation and more than 50 percent reduction in irrigation. What are the plants look like? Kilohertz, the hydrangea, and it fits in July. No difference the growth measurements rather than October. Again, no difference in growth. Different plant carrier, same thing, no difference as mid-60s, they control that was getting the most water. It's actually a little bit smaller than some of the other treatments. Here's here's one definitely. Unless it goes back to what Ron was talking about, washing your nutrients out a little bit chaotic. And, you know, leach nutrients in this case. And that's one way one would make while yet poor growth. Here's another one. Again, the control here for daily water use types of treatments. And you can see, in this case, plants are bigger and in full bloom versus the control. It's not even at Boolean. So some, some good benefits to growth. How about water-saving? So this is our control, is 2.42 million gallons per acre in Sweden versus 1.61.4133. How much runoff? So 1 million gallons. So habit of water almost ran off versus quite a bit less for the daily watering his treatments. We can group plants, then the integers to low uses. So now nurseries can group their stance as well. And ears irrigate a whole group of plants the same way. If you had this group, these plants here, group with these plants, you need to be severely over watering niche group. Or you'd be killing this group of plants. And that's a nice way to be able to allow girls who plants so that they can be more efficient with their water use. And I don't want to get to the important part of this that we looked at. We've put in the system where we have late that day, the pond liner one foot below the landscape fabric where we're growing a crop. So we can get surface runoff and we can get one foot subsurface infiltration for irrigation and look at both pesticides, pesticides moving that system. And of course, how water moves in the system so that the irrigation abide the control again, that three quarters of an inch a day versus two sprays, they treatments. It's one to two liters or two or half gallon per day versus based on daily water use. So much less water applied. This is the runoff, basically. How much told runoff? The surface and subsurface. So again much more from the control. To control for the half a gallon per day and then even less for the container for the daily want to use one. And then we can split it out into above than below runoff. So surface runoff and infiltration. And you can see again, much less moving through based on the sprays take irrigation not quite as much in the subsurface, but quite a bit in surface runoff. And that makes sense because this is coming right down through the drain holes versus a lot of this is where the irrigation miss the target. Pops don't cover the complete production surface. Hello, pesticides move, activate a really mobile, highly soluble pesticide. And you can see that's that overhead. And then the other colors you rarely show up. And they're much lower. As far as acetate concentration. And that's in the surface runoff, that's the concentration moving below. So a little bit more kind of a delayed response for all of them. And a little bit more in the phrase fake treatment. In here that will load, to load the actual volume or the quantity, the weight of the acetate. So this is ounces per acre Moving. And again, almost nothing showing up and surface runoff. And then a little bit more. This is the total from pro of those 16 days after application. I'm pretty quick thing kind of thing. That's a different one, a little less mobile. This is a fungicide. Franklin dissolve and how it moves both in concentration we can load. And then another year where we looked at two different overhead treatment and the control based on daily water use, fake based on daily audience. So how it compared to 2017? So the sprays the same and the daily water use was lucky that actually compared to the set amount per day, the runoff. So there's a couple of surface and subsurface runoff. And that's compared to 2017. So fairly similar. A little bit higher in the overhead daily water use treatment. And admitted how to split into a top surface runoff and infiltration below. This is pretty similar. You saw very similar things in 2017. Activate movement. Same thing in 2018. And also with triangle must all shaping in and out of the plant look fairly somewhere. So this is a red dog. Would hydrangea connect a lotta? This one, this plant, let's just pass maturity. So it's brown because it's proper authority. Rose pretty similar looking plants for applying a lot less water, for having a lot less movement of water in the system. And then we're also transporting lower amounts of pesticides in that water. To kind of summarize that, when we go to edX doing irrigation by plant, the man can reduce water use, water extraction you between 30 and 35 percent. We can reduce runoff, both therapists and subsurface runoff by 30 to 60 percent. We can reduce peptide movement. Again, that depends on the different pesticide that we get. A substantial reduction in pesticide movement. More money than the surface runoff and technical trading. And then feel pesticide and nutrients are moving primarily in water. So when ever we can reduce the amount of water used, we can reduce the irrigation return flow, runoff, and infiltration. In that way. This is the movement of agrochemicals. So we can reduce pesticide limit, we can irrigate based on plant requirement, the layer negation as long as possible after pesticide application. That's something different. Projects that reduced irrigation rate after fall, after pesticide application crashed, due date if possible. So that deficit irrigation that we did, you can use that to do activity irritation. If we can, with low water solubility, that makes them less likely to move and water recycling runoff be able to count that. That's one thing that a lot of nurseries and clean house that you're doing. Those that's pretty much it. And I'm sorry that the presentation then come through as well as their head. I think at a very, dark, when you go back to that top slide, you can clean my email address. If you have any question, you want to get in touch with me. Feel free to contact me by e-mail and testing time. And I think it's it's really important to understand that those containers are our big potential source for having excess water and excess nutrients, I guess in pesticides causing issues in there. So I do have one quick question for you in there which is when they recycle that water, they just they just land apply it overall or is it Can it be is it clean enough in general to be able to utilize it and as it as irrigation from the same plots again. Yeah, that's a really good question and concern by growers, especially when they're inherited a lot of times because herbicide, they're getting recycled in the water. But there are more or different plateau because by the clock that correspond to get fair bit I didn't. Some that are more mobile and more and more guided practice. But yet you can't just worry about herbicide yet to worry about some of the fungicide and even checked with that will cause fight or flight response. But what's happening as you're usually when recycling into a fairly large reservoir. And that reservoir getting input, water input from other sources been just recycled water so it gets natural rainfall. Some of them are probably not the best way to do it, but had been taken advantage of natural upon. That can be a little tricky when it comes to regulations. But most of them are designed or constructed pod and they're getting a lot of other water inputs. Some will pump into their reservoirs so that they have a reserve of water or the drier periods. There are a lot of things you can do to dilute the pesticide. And then part of my research program is looking at Method cleaning up water. So we're looking at things like bioreactor, other filter type thing that will bind and break down food, the microbial community, they become petrified so that they're no longer in the cockpit to two plants or the surrounding environment. And testing. It's great research time. I really appreciate you sharing that with us today. Betsy, you have any information, folks that are looking for a restricted use pesticide credits on this program and they assume it will probably e-mail nice out to everyone, right? Yep. I just put the link in the chat to a quick survey where we'll collect information we need. Anyone wants the credits and we will we will get that turned into MDRD so you can receive those those credits are arguably credit. So go ahead and fill that out and if you have any questions or any problems doing so our aim, the information, just let us know and we'll help you get through it. Yeah, it will have in tumble if you can e-mail me or Betsy or both this year, your presentation, we'll go back through and match up those slides. Anyone that wants to go back through this in, and we'll clean up the slide in the presentation and discussion at the same time and make that happen so well with that, if there's any other questions for Tom, we've got a mind yet for a little bit. Please drop them in the chat. If not, we will sign off for today and we'll see you guys hopefully in a couple of weeks. And we'll talk a little bit more about irrigation, water sourcing and similar regulations on inside there as well. So thanks again.