MSU Extension Safe Food & Water

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In this episode of Think Food Safety, Kara Lynch, Food Safety Educator, talks with Katrina Sokol, Michigan Department of Agriculture and Rural Development Food Inspector on why some foods are classified as cottage foods and other foods need a license.  Whether you are a vendor or consumer, join us to find out more about how to identify the differences and purchase safe food.

Transcript

Kara Lynch:

Welcome to Think Food Safety, a podcast on topics related to food safety that affect the food we need. Michigan State University extension educators talk with food industry professionals to provide information and share resources on hot topics and best practices to keep people safe from food-borne illness. Thank you for tuning in. Let's get started and answer those questions that you didn't even know you had.

Welcome to the MSU Extensions Think Food Safety Podcast, focusing on topics that affect the safety of our food. I'm Kara Lynch from MSU Extension Food Safety Team, and I'm here today with Katrina Sokol, a Michigan Department of Agriculture and Rural Development Food Inspector. Katrina is a regular guest on our online cottage food law class offered through MSU extension, and we are going to have Katrina help us to understand some of the procedures as well as challenges in this industry. So, hi Katrina. It is great to have you here today.

Katrina Sokol:

Hi. Thank you for having me.

Kara Lynch:

Yeah, excited. We previously had a discussion with one of our educators to talk basically about what the cottage food law is, what foods are considered a cottage food and what's not classified as a cottage food?

So today what I really want to talk about is what we're seeing at the markets currently that are cottage foods. What are some of the popular ones maybe that we're seeing out there? So maybe, we know that there are some people that are selling food that is not cottage food, but they're selling it without a license as well. So in other words, they're making and selling food that doesn't qualify as cottage food, but people are still preparing it out of their home and selling it without the proper licensing.

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah.

Kara Lynch:

Yeah. So if you could maybe start out, but just let us know, what is MDARD's role in the cottage food industry?

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah, so MDARD, we are responsible for regulating and enforcing the Michigan food law and the cottage food was adopted and put into the food law many years ago, the demand for such a market to have a way for people to sell products without requiring a license. And the food law is pretty specific in what it requires, limiting it to non-perishable food with specific directions on how to label and how you can sell and where you can sell.

And I mean, as the industry and the worlds evolve and we become more and more crafty and there's more ways to sell things, we have been pretty much educators in regards to enforcing the cottage food law. Michigan doesn't have a registry, so it's kind of a volunteer basis. We expect you to know the law and know training and know food safety and kind of get educated yourself before you start selling the product. And then if we do see it out in commerce, then we have to kind of switch into our regular mode and call the person, find somebody, try to get it out of commerce if it's not supposed to be there, if it's not an approved product. And just because they're not licensed vendors doesn't mean they don't have to abide by the food law. So it's generally a case by case basis, depending on severity of the situation but, yeah.

Kara Lynch:

Educators and regulators.

Katrina Sokol:

Yep, yep.

That's part of the food chain, so we have to keep it safe. Yep.

Kara Lynch:

Right, sure. So I think when a lot of people think about who regulates, a lot of people think about the health department. So how is what MDARD is doing with the cottage foods, how do you act differently than the health department?

Katrina Sokol:

Right. So health departments generally known for food for immediate consumption, and states are all different. So Michigan's way that we regulate food is different than how Indiana or Chicago or Illinois or anybody else is going to have their own rules. So in Michigan, food for immediate consumption, which would be restaurants, coffee shops, bakeries, anything that you would consume on site, catering, things like that, those are all conducted under local health. And then we go by predominance. So 51% food for immediate consumption would be considered local health and then prepackaged food production, grocery stores, things that you would take and consume later would fall under MDARD.

So then we have our, local health departments have their districts and their own set of rules, but we all follow the same food code and food law. So we just go by predominance of what is being sold. So most cottage food products being a prepackaged, non-perishable food item would not fall under local health. It would be under MDARD's regulation.

Kara Lynch:

Okay. Well thank you. That helps clarify that. So can you help explain or just list maybe some of the foods that you do see being sold, some of the more popular cottage foods that you do see being sold ad where are they often sold at? What type of-

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah. So I think when the law started, the big, big ones were bakery items, cookies, breads, brownies, easy to do, packaged food items. But then we started evolving into jams and jellies and decorated cookies and cocoa bombs. You get people making pasta now. And as our cultural melting pot continues to mix together, we're getting ethnic foods that fall under cottage food that are non-imperishable. Then it keeps us busy.

I mean, sometimes we get new things like freeze drying is a relatively new process that has become accessible to non mass production people. So we can buy small freeze dryers for home use. And so that's opened up a whole nother market. People growing gardens now, kind of like the farm to table theory. So people are growing their own fruits and vegetables, drying those, making teas. So it gets pretty creative and it's always interesting for me to hear some new ideas. Someone calls me up and says, "This permissible?" And then you think through the whole chain and you're like, yeah, I guess. Yeah, go for it, see what happens. And so it's forever changing.

And then I know we have a whole list of ideas of things that are on our website, MDAR website, but that's not all encompassing by any means.

Kara Lynch:

Well, we often with the MX MSU extension are getting questions from people and often have to refer to you because like you said, people are getting creative and there's some questions that we're not totally sure on. So we always appreciate your input with that.

Now conversely to that, how about food items that people sell that aren't cottage foods, but they also don't have a license. So what are some of the things that you've seen with that?

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah. So I think it's more that people don't understand the rules and so they think it's okay to do it. So we see people who are making meals like meal delivery services, charcuterie platters, cheesecakes. And they're like, "Well, I'm delivering it for a party so it's going to be consumed right away." And it's like, no, no. It's still, that's not cottage food and you would need a food service license for that, or a retail food license.

We get a lot of pushback on not allowing pumpkin pies and sweet potato pie because the grocery store at our shelfs stable and a lot of home pies are made with a more, not all the chemicals to preserve it. And so we see a lot of those. People who are making a roast, making tea blends or roasting their own coffee, that's permissible under cottage food, but then they want to take it a step further and brew it. And that's food service now. So that's not under cottage food. So we see that quite a bit. Sometimes people have a 99% of a menu that is cottage food compliant and then they decide to just sneak one more in there to say, "Hey, we also offer this."

Pepper jellies. We get a lot of that, people who make their own jams and jellies and then they decide to make it into a relish of some part, or they add in a habanero pepper and that's not permissible. Canning. And I know people are like, "Well, we [inaudible 00:10:13] at home for years, but why can't can vegetables?" And it's a specialized process that requires additional testing to ensure that it's safe. So we can't let that happen and, yeah.

Kara Lynch:

Preservation is a science. We see that a lot with the work that we do. And people say, "Well, gosh, they sell it in the store." We hear that coming up or we've been doing it forever. But then-

Katrina Sokol:

And it's, yeah. And then there's such a variety of recipes. And so is your product safe? Yeah, probably. But just to cut it dry and put it across the board. Like with buttercream, we get this a lot too, where people are using, "Why can't we have buttercream with butter or eggs or Swiss meringue," and it's like, well, because it would require refrigeration. There's some people who make it this way and some people make it that way. So it's just easier just to say no to all of it rather than digging into recipes and trying to figure out processes.

Kara Lynch:

And as far as jam goes, I mean we had, can jams are allowed, but freezer jams have to be kept cold. And so there's some confusion with that I think too.

Katrina Sokol:

Yep.

Kara Lynch:

Yeah.

Katrina Sokol:

Yep. Non-perishable, shelf stable is the key. Yep.

Kara Lynch:

And I think one other situation that is certainly present now in our society is the use of social media. So whereas before people, you had to go somewhere to sell your products and now there's kind of a blown up situation where people are making something out of their home. They don't have a license and operating out of a licensed kitchen, and then they're marketing it on social media to sell it. And so they're kind of getting around that visibility in public.

Katrina Sokol:

We still see it, too.

Kara Lynch:

Well, I mean they're getting around taking it to a market [inaudible 00:12:19] where they're actually going to do it sort of on privately and marketing it through social media.

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah. Yeah. So social media and Facebook [inaudible 00:12:31], Facebook Marketplace. I mean, these are all popular areas where, I mean, it would be a full-time job for someone at MDARD to sit there. I mean we could send out inspectors nonstop to, and we do. And there's farmers markets, trade shows, arts and craft fairs. There's all sorts of places where you can market your product as long as you are there to sell it. But definitely, I think that's probably why cottage food has boomed is because of social media, just being able to reach more people.

Kara Lynch:

Yeah, I think if you were to search, take your Facebook Marketplace and search for food, it-

Katrina Sokol:

I don't want to.

Kara Lynch:

Surprising sometimes you might find.

Katrina Sokol:

I don't want more work.

Kara Lynch:

Right, right. But yes, we have seen that too. And so when that happens, it's important for consumers to be aware of themselves. So they know that that's really, you don't want to support somebody who hasn't gone through all the proper procedures.

Katrina Sokol:

No, no. That's a risk. Absolutely. We see, it's a lot of meal prep and a lot of catering where people are preparing dishes and then they're like, "Okay, this is [inaudible 00:13:51] menu. Come pick it up. Or dinner today is this." And it's like, gosh.

Kara Lynch:

Yeah. Yeah. Home kitchens are certainly not the same standards as a licensed kitchen where there's no pets and...

Katrina Sokol:

Sadly, yeah.

Kara Lynch:

Cleaning and sanitizing procedures and, yeah, yeah. So what are the consequences if you did have someone that takes something that's not a cottage food, but they don't have a license, what might happen in that situation?

Katrina Sokol:

Well, so yeah, a vast majority of complaints that come in and MDARD has to investigate any and all complaints are from competitors. So another cottage food person or someone else who is scrolling Facebook or saw the person selling somewhere, then they weren't there. So a lot of our knowledge of vendors out there, because there are, I mean we don't even know how many cottage food vendors are out there because we don't have a way to track them all. It comes from complaints. And so we get sent Facebook screenshots, we get sent pictures, and then, so part of our investigation would be either to visit the location where they are, or if we can find a home or home number, we'll call. If it's in a retail store, generally that product will be removed from the shelves. We'll put a seizure tag on it.

But I mean, for the most part, I mean we're not looking to cause, I mean probably we find out the reason and it's usually because someone doesn't quite understand the rules. And so there'll be a discussion, we'll have a discussion first and if it comes to the point where we know that person is intentionally trying to abate the law, then they'll get a report. And if it's really bad or a recurring issue, we do have the authority to issue fines. And so you'll get admin fines sent to you that you'll be required to pay. And then you're on our naughty list. You don't want to be on MDARD's naughty list.

Kara Lynch:

Right, right. So it's important to do the right thing from the beginning, right.

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah. Yeah.

But with health department, I know health department, they'll send out cease and assists immediately. So if they find catering, things like that, yeah, you'll get a letter in the mail or a visit.

Kara Lynch:

Okay. Where can people look to get more information as far as the cottage food law and what's acceptable, what's not and more resources? What is it that MDARD has available that can help educate people?

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah, I think there's lots of resources out there. So the MDARD webpage. You can go google it for an easy fast track or you, there's a search box and you can just type in cottage food and then it'll come up to our whole page to how to label, how to properly label, what's permissible, how to store, how to keep things clean at home, how to sanitize and things like that. MSU has a great, I mean you can speak to that, has a great course. The MIFMA Farmers' Markets, the people who are kind of the overarching, I don't know.

Kara Lynch:

And then the boss of the farmer's market.

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah, yeah. The farmers' markets themselves have their own regulations and they have their own information that they can send out to you. You can reach out to your area inspector for help. So I mean, I think it's better to ask someone than just to try to find the information or learn it from someone else who might not pass the correct info.

Kara Lynch:

And I think everyone, I think probably knows at least where their local health department is or how to get ahold of them. And I think a lot of people start with the local health department and there's always that relationship that you guys have. We have as well but yes, with your local health department too, so even just as a starting point, they can put you or MSU extension. There's someone in every county usually.

And as you mentioned, we do have the cottage food lab classes. We do offer them online and they're great. Katrina is a regular participant in those classes, as well as people from MSU's Product Center. And then we also have some sort safe classes we offer and more information like that. So a lot of resources available so people can find out more before they even get started. Because of the manner in which people can get away with selling food with without a license, especially in light of using social media, like we talked about in, it's possible to do stuff like that. But why is it so important to make consumers more aware of regulations around this industry and maybe touch on maybe some potential risks involved.

Katrina Sokol:

Well, I think it really comes down to a buyer beware. I mean, if you have any questions or you're like, yeah, this looks good, but is it safe?

Kara Lynch:

[inaudible 00:19:30].

Katrina Sokol:

So the law has restrictions in place, right? It's pretty non-perishable, prepackaged food. It's not permissible first and you probably should throw some red flags up that whoever's making this might not know proper hygiene issues. You could do improper storage or your packaging. They could have stuff on the floor. There could be pests, mold. So you got to be careful of who you're buying it from and really bring it from a knowledgeable source. So there are some things that you know should probably-

Kara Lynch:

Well, yeah. And I know we hear a lot of in our line of work too, about people that have food allergies. And that's something I know I have seen is people that don't have the labeling done properly with the ingredients.

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah. And that's just part of it because you don't know if they made a rice crispy that you're like, oh, that's nothing in there. But you don't know if they made peanut butter rice crispies before that and didn't clean the pan enough. And now, so I mean, there is a certain element to it. But I mean, people go to farmer's markets all the time and it just becomes this buffet and they're like, "I'm just going to eat from every angle." And I think people see, they kind of get lost in the moment and they really need to think about what they are buying.

Kara Lynch:

Yeah. And if also there's that level of accountability too, if, say you've got home and you notice something with the food you purchased and you don't know how to track it back too. Or if we got sick for even, but you don't have that full disclosure on the label or maybe you don't even know the actual producer.

Katrina Sokol:

And it is required. I mean, so cottage food vendors need to have their home address on the label. That is a hundred percent requirement. And I would be leery of that. If it's not on there and you don't know how to get back to them if you get sick or something happens, I wouldn't buy it because you have no way of finding answers and...

Kara Lynch:

[inaudible 00:21:41].

Katrina Sokol:

Yeah.

Kara Lynch:

Yeah. Well, I think this has been very helpful for people that are thinking of getting into cottage food or maybe just wanting to know a little bit more about it and finding out more information.

I do want to also put a plug out there for MSU Extensions Think Food Safety Facebook page where we do a lot of education and we do links to our classes as well. You mentioned MDARD having a very comprehensive website, so I would encourage anybody also to go there.

And as you mentioned Katrina, you're on their side, right? You want people to succeed. So you're a resource.

Katrina Sokol:

Nine out 10 people are trying to do it right. Yeah. It's just those, that 1% that just, you can ruin it for everybody else. So we go with the benefit of the doubt. Absolutely.

Kara Lynch:

Yeah. So don't be afraid to reach out, going to their website. People can find out how to do that as well. Asking your market masters at your local farmer's markets, they're great resource. Also, ask Extension. If you go to MSU's website, there's a button on almost every page that has a button for Ask Extension, so it'll direct you on how to ask a question online. And then MSU Extension also has a food safety hotline. That's 1-877-643-9882. So don't be afraid to use any of your resources up there to find out more information.

Well, thank you very much Katrina.

Katrina Sokol:

Sure.

Kara Lynch:

You are always a joy to have on our classes and we look forward to working with you more. Come again.

Katrina Sokol:

Sure. Yeah, please reach out if anybody has any questions, we're here to help. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you.

Kara Lynch:

MSU is an affirmative action, equal opportunity employer. Michigan State University Extension programs and materials are open to all without regard to race, color, national origin, gender, gender identity, religion, age, height, weight, disability, political beliefs, sexual orientation, marital status, family status or veteran status. This information is for educational purposes only. Reference to commercial products or trade names does not imply endorsement by MSU Extension or biased against those at [inaudible 00:24:26].

 

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  Kara Lynch